Breaking the Blog Rules 02/11/2005 Recently I've noticed some interesting things about the numbers of comments on my posts. I have blathered on about this subject a lot in the past (Oh, Blog It!, Anyone for Comments? and How to Win Friends...) but there is always more to learn in this blogging business and my thoughts on comments continue to develop.It is noticeable that some subjects gather more comments than others. When I express my opinion on anything, it seems that I get plenty of comments in reply. Anything on blogging or computing also reaps plenty of response. The memories of Africa and England usually get a reasonable number of comments and the same for anything to do with my view of America. But the short stories get short shrift from readers, it seems.What is going on with fiction? Why does it elicit such a small response? I think there are several answers to these questions, most related to the medium of blogging. My longer stories that I split into a serial require a huge commitment of time and effort from the reader. In theory, they should bring people back to read each episode but most readers don't have the time and the will to do so. It's the regulars who will follow a serial through to the end; visitors just move on to the next blog.It is more difficult to see what is happening with the single-post stories. They are specifically designed for blogging, being no longer than most readers can cope with and require no more commitment than any other post, I would have thought. Is it that the majority of people don't like fiction? This could be, although the thousands involved in blogging must include a still-sizeable number of fiction readers surely.Perhaps the stories do get read but are less easy to comment on than opinion posts. Although there is usually a weird opinion hiding in most of them, it could be that it is too well hidden and so doesn't annoy people enough to make them comment. Or maybe the stories are awful and people are too polite to say so.Whatever the reason, it seems that it's blogging suicide to post fiction. If we want a continuously expanding reader base, the natural thing would be to go for factual and opinion posts only. There has been a tendency to do this in my blog anyway, but it's caused more by the enormous creative effort demanded by fiction than any conscious strategy.Understand that this does not discourage me as regards fiction; it's interesting, that's all. I will post fiction as and when I can and bear the consequences in decreased numbers of comments. Fiction has advantages for me that I cannot ignore: it requires more creativity than other posts and this prevents me from becoming lazy, it is useful practice for writing non-blog fiction, and it gives me a vehicle for thoughts that I would not release naked and ashamed into the world.Another interesting fact to emerge from an examination of comments to my latest posts is that regulars sometimes disappear and visitors are commenting more often. I think I know what is happening with the regulars: many of them are becoming successful bloggers and find they have no time left over for the established blog rounds and commenting. This has happened to me so I understand it very well. Some find out that there's a world out there and leave for other things. And I suspect that there are those who like some of my posts and not others.The increase in visitor comments is harder to explain. It may just be that the increasing frequency of opinion posts in the blog is reaching those who have an interest in the subjects I pontificate upon. I will admit that I have become more controversial in recent months, perhaps to see how much I can get away with; this might have some influence on the matter too.But a closer inspection, coupled with a look at comments received in BlogExplosion, reveals that many visitors are recent arrivals in blogging. It seems very likely that some like whatever post happens to be on top but don't realize how I wander from subject to subject; later posts are just as likely to put them off. So another principle of successful blogging is vindicated: choose your subject and stick to it.Except that I won't. Like my attitude to fiction, this is an area where I won't compromise for the sake of popularity. I like having the freedom to talk about whatever comes to mind. It would make sense to have several blogs, each dealing with a different theme, but I won't do that either. At the moment I post once every two days; with several blogs, the update rate would be very low indeed. And that's another way of committing blog suicide - to die in pieces rather than as one.Perhaps my glory days of comments are over. Maybe the blog has become so unpredictable that nobody can stick with it through all its sudden changes of subject. It still hauls people in from all over the place so I think I'll just keep plugging away and see what happens.In the end, the blog is me and it's what I do.
Clive
John Evans (SYNTAGMA) You've hit a nail I've been pondering over for a while, Clive. Namely, you have to fit your work to the platform. Blogging is about immediacy, buzz, movement, ephemera, simply because so much changes so quickly. This is why it suits younger minds ... but also keeps older minds youthful.
To me short stories, which not everyone appreciates, need a more leisured platform, so that they can be mulled over. In other words, they need a print format. On the Net, there's too much hangover from dial-up days, when minutes cost money and everyone speed-read. Don't give up the fiction, but bear in mind the ideal platform for its true appreciation. You wouldn't hang an Old Master in a tool shed, would you? :-) Date Added: 02/11/2005
Wontar I believe that, generally speaking, people are more comfortable in giving a knee-jerk reaction to a politically-themed post or an opinion post. They either agree with you or they do not, and they chime in accordingly. It's very simple for peopel to separate into "us/them" camps, even if that wasn't your intent. A story, or a poem, or a picture requires the reader/viewer to respond on a different level in order to leave a thoughtful comment. (Rather than just a critique along the lines of "that sucks!" or "that's cool!") I've written short stories, posted pictures of my own creation, posted stories inspired by pictures (and vice-versa), but in a year and a half of blogging my two most-commented posts have dealt with a negative experience with customer service, and an encounter with a rattlesnake. My artwork and stories are free of even the "that sucks!" kind of comments. At the end of the day, I blog for myself. I don't need to find my niche, or develop a following. I share little pieces of me with whoever stops by. If they enjoy it, that's good. If they don't, that's fine too. Date Added: 02/11/2005
Gone Away All true, John - unfortunately. I still believe that the day may come when people become accustomed to reading fiction on screen but it hasn't arrived yet. Perhaps what is needed is a new technology that makes it easier. A book-sized screen that you can detach from the computer and carry around with you maybe - the technology (wireless transmission and small screens) for that already exists but hasn't been combined yet. In the meantime, I suppose we have to accept the limitations of the medium... Date Added: 02/11/2005
Gone Away You're right that it's more difficult to comment on fiction that other things, Wontar. And that means we'll always have fewer comments on such posts, I guess. My own motives in blogging are a little more complex than yours, so I do have to think about these things. But I envy you the ability to just put it out there and not care how many read it. That is true blogging freedom! Date Added: 02/11/2005
Yzabel I've noticed the same thing with stories on several blogs—but then, I also often find myself not really knowing how to react to fiction. "Great story" and similar types of comments don't really cut it for me. And giving a critic of the story? Did the author asked for one? Does the author want/would accept one? Do I have the time to write one? Etc. So in the end... I'm guilty of reading, but seldom commenting on stories... Date Added: 02/11/2005
Gone Away Hmmm, must admit that I'm the same, Yzabel. I guess we have to accept that fiction will never garner many comments. Date Added: 02/11/2005
Ken There are some interesting points developing here, Gone Away. I don't agree at all with Syntagma, for example, when he talks about the blogging medium being about immediacy, buzz, movement and ephemera. Some of the sites I read regularly, though not as often as I should for the reasons you give about one's own blog, offer deep, profound and lasting reading experiences, posts to take away and keep. Admittedly, because of its density and greater conciseness, poetry makes this much more possible than prose which, as Syntagma also says, encourages skimming and scanning because of its length and the need to scroll - which I dislike a great deal. On the subject of comments, I think that for the comment dialogue between individuals to deepen and become richer, those involved have to care more about the content than the form in a personal and sometimes emotionally revealing way. Date Added: 02/11/2005
Gone Away Excellent points, Ken. But I think you're both right; John is right about the majority of blog readers expecting a quick hit and then they're on to the next one, and you are right in that there is a minority who are prepared to stay, read and make thoughtful comment. That's our market, the second group, and I spend time thinking about how to expand it and reach others. At times I get a bit despondent (like with this post) but then it's onward, ever onward! Date Added: 02/11/2005
Canadian Vegetable While I've never blogged enough to actually get comments, yet, I can relate from the forum world. What I have found is similar, in that if you decide to express an opinion people will comment if they agree or disagree. The more powerful your expression of opinion, the more conviction will be created in the reader, whether they agree or disagree. At some point they cross a threshold and burst, and they have to explain how what you've said jibes or how much they think you are a totally stupid moron. Yes, okay, not everyone has nice comments... Anyway, my guess, and I'm trying to offer some literary advice and I'm certainly not qualified to, is that your readers aren't getting hooked strongly enough and quickly enough when you give them fiction. Heh, I haven't read any of it, yet, but I bet if you started off with something emotionally strong, and that had a character with a strong opinion or significant response, you might pull people into agreeing with or disagreeing with the situation and characters. What it came down to for me, when talking in online forums, was deciding to really say what I felt, and the heck with what anyone thought about it. When I stopped playing careful, such that I wouldn't offend anyone, when I let loose as myself, then the real conversations started. Anyway, I apologize profusely if you have already taken all this into account and then making your comments. As I said, I haven't seen anything you've done before... just stumbled along onto your site today. Keep writing! Date Added: 02/11/2005
ISAY Interesting. I have a blog about emigrating in the other direction. It's called Emigration Blog and is on www.blogger.com with Isay as the author. I need to find out how to link your blog since I think our blogs would be good counterpoints to each other. Date Added: 02/11/2005
Gone Away I write weird fiction, Canadian (somehow I can't bring myself to call you Vegetable :D), fables and wordplays, tricks and mixtures of genres. Many of them deal with controversial stuff but you have to dig a little to find it - so I'm not surprised that most don't seem to get a lot from them. But hey, I knew that before I started! Essentially I'm having a moan and will get back to it now that I'm done. ;) You are certainly right when you say it's best to be yourself. As time goes on, I let more and more of my views be known and the response has been quite amazing. It helps that some of my opinions are way off the beaten track, however! Date Added: 02/11/2005
Gone Away Fascinating blog, Isay (yes, I found it - clever clogs me); I'll be reading more when I get a moment. This blog was built from the ground up by my son, Mad (he's a web developer), and we still use a bit of XHTML in the comments system (he's working on the finer points as and when he gets time). This is the relevant URL therefore: Emigration Blog. I like the idea of counterpoint blogs but, never having used Blogger, I'm not sure how linking is done in it. Perhaps some of my commenters can help on that score. I have to do it by hand but it's about time I updated my links so I'll do that soon. Date Added: 02/11/2005
Steve Thorn Hello Clive, I know with my blog I can check nightly log files and see what kind of traffic I've had, and I can have a very good day and still have no comments. In my experience with it, I get more comments the closer I stick to being myself and writing about the things that everyone (or most) can relate to. The subtitle to my blog is 'aspiring author, husband, father of five' and I think that when I stick to writing about those subjects is when I acquire the most comments. I have put some small fiction on the blog and not received many comments, --if at all, and yet on my web page itself I have put out a chapter excerpt and such and still get on average about 50 hits on it a month. So, I guess I will stick with keeping my actual fiction out of my blog, because if someone is looking for fiction they can choose to go to my website and see it. BUT, if you have an interesting blog and people like reading what you write, people will take the time to read it . and even comment on it, even after reading all of the numerous and interesting comments that follow it -- as I obviously have here. You're a good read, Clive. Face it :) BlogExplosion almost feels like one of those rapid-date schemes, where you have 30 seconds to see if this is one you would go out with again. Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away Very interesting, Steve. Eventually I will have the blog split into categories with one for fiction so that should ease the problem a bit (are you listening, Mad? :D). And thanks for the kind comment. BlogExplosion as digital matchmaker? I've never thought of it like that but it certainly fits! Date Added: 03/11/2005
Phish I am trying to understand what Syntagma's comment is actually saying. It appears to be saying that people want to read quickly and without much thought and therefore, any post requiring such mental effort will be unpopular. Does that mean in blogging one should strive to garner the most readers with the lowest attention spans? I suppose pandering to the lowest common denominator works well enough; television does it all the time with great commercial success. Personally, if I am going to read a page's worth of text, I would probably rather read good fiction than what Boots the cat did today or the details of someone's bad day at work. I haven't read through much of your blog, just happened here. I find it interesting and well-written. I didn't think that it might take so long to read that I would miss out on newly blogged pictures of someone's painting and tiling projects around the house. Wontar comments “A story, or a poem, or a picture requires the reader/viewer to respond on a different level in order to leave a thoughtful comment.” What’s wrong with that? Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away I think what John of Syntagma is really saying is that we should not be surprised when fiction receives fewer comments than other posts, Phish, because the majority of blog readers are not prepared to put in that extra effort that fiction requires, as Wontar mentions. We may not like it but, judging from experience, I'd say it's true. As for preferring to read something with a few original thoughts in it rather than the illnesses of someone's cat, I agree with you totally. Would that the rest of the world did too... ;) Date Added: 03/11/2005
Trée Clive, I find it you flirt with your female readers you tend to get more comments. Your mileage may vary. :-) Date Added: 03/11/2005
John Clive, maybe the lack of comment on fiction, is because the story is not finished yet? I dunno, just a guess mate, keep on blogging whatever! GBYAY Date Added: 03/11/2005
Stuart Clive - there is some fiction, in certain categories, that is widely read on the Net because the people who are attracted to that type of fiction can't find it anywhere else. Perhaps the type of fiction that you write Clive can be found in more friendly mediums - after all, for most people, reading text on a computer monitor is not a comfortable experience (something that is best shown by the fact that most people read text on a monitor at a speed that is 25% slower than if they were reading from a book or newspaper) - and so if they can find it in more friendly mediums they will look for it there. On the other hand I do recall something you wrote a few months back that I described as a parable - and that was commented on by quite a few people. Date Added: 03/11/2005
John Evans (Syntagma) Lots of good comments on this one, Clive :-) ... My basic point is that you have to separate the content from the architecture. That means making a decision on the best architecture for the content. The premise for your post is that you don't get many comments for fiction. That, in itself, indicates that maybe the architecture (medium) is not completely suitable for the material.
This is a rich seam for philosophizing on. I've been continuing it, at a slight tangent, on my own blog : The Case for Partial Monetization. It's really all about why we blog, and what we blog about. Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away I have stood and watched you with your female readers, Trée; you're a master and I could never hope to compete with you! ;) Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away Actually, I was just having a pommy whinge, John. Feeling much better for it, too! :D Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away Interesting, Stuart. I didn't know that about reading speeds on a monitor but I can certainly believe it. That alone would go a long way to explaining why anything of length has a hard time getting read on the net. And you're right that sometimes I get quite a few comments on fiction pieces. To be honest, I was looking at the numbers for the last few posts and trying to see trends; it looked as though fiction was the poor relation when it comes to comments and I ignored the fact that this post is really based on a very small sample. Things are not as bad as I painted them, I'm sure. :) Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away But you know I'm a stubborn old fart, John. So the medium doesn't quite fit what I want to do with it? Then I'll have a darn good go at bending it until it does (WBA is a part of that attempted bending). Excellent article you've written there, John. It really gets to the heart of what's happening of late. And I must apologize for only getting to it this morning - the usual excuses, too much busy-ness, no time left for my usual rounds. Such is blogging... Date Added: 03/11/2005
Twelvebirds Interesting look at what people are interested in. I am not sure that the number of comments is always an indicator of the number of interested readers. As the other commenter said, possibly people don't want to leave what sounds like a critique of the post or story. The net ought to be big enough for everyone, maybe it is just finding your audience or letting them find you? Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away Good points, Twelve. Comments are certainly not necessarily a good indicator of readers, as you say. The stats at the end of the day tell me more than the comments do. Which brings me to a shameful admission: my stats have suffered a little dip over the last few days and this may well have had something to do with the decision to write this post. I know I shouldn't care, but I do... :> But the hunt for readers will go on! Date Added: 03/11/2005
Stargazer Twelvebirds has a good point. I don't think comments is necessarily an indicator of interested readers. I notice that people are staying on my blog (per NeoCounter ) more than the BE timeframe. So, they must be somewhat interested. Hopefully, they're didn't just get up to make a sandwich - LOL. But usually only my returning visitors leave comments. Also, you don't know who's viewing your blog. I think some people are looking for a quick read, because they have limited time. But it is disappointing to post a piece of fiction, and not receive comments. This happened to me once, and I am reluctant to post any more stories. I am glad you wrote about the subject. Perhaps I will rethink my reluctance to post fiction. Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away It's certainly true that comments are no indicator of traffic, Stargazer. My stats show that traffic continues to increase but the number of comments stays about the same overall. As regards short stories, I don't think you should become discouraged. There are many reasons why they don't gather a lot of comments but that doesn't mean they're not being read. And, if you enjoy writing them, why shouldn't you post them? It's your blog, after all! :) Date Added: 03/11/2005
Scot Clive: Fascinating dialogue that has ensued in response to this post. Without question, blogging has created a forum that gives both writers and readers instant access to each other. Depending on the purpose of the blog, some read like newsletters, some like journals, that is, those that seem to have more thought put into them. But a considerable number blogs look and read more like scrapbooks. Tidbits of trivial but sometimes meaningful occurrences that people post to their blogs to share with others the experience of their daily lives. Indeed, for most people, this is not only very gratifying but empowering as well. And it is for this reason that blogging has become the cultural phenomenon that it has. Whether blogging creates a more capable reader that can respond to a variety of genres remains to be seen. Date Added: 03/11/2005
Gone Away Really, the medium is still in its infancy, Scot, and where it will end, who can say? But you're certainly right about why it has exploded into popularity so quickly. For the first time ever, anyone can publish whatever they have to say. And I think we will become accustomed to it in time and that readers who can cope with large amounts of text onscreen will appear. Humans are endlessly adaptable... Date Added: 03/11/2005
keeef if you keep analyzing you'll go blind....at least i think its analyzing that makes you go blind....whatever it is my eyesites fooked Date Added: 04/11/2005
Gone Away Welcome back, Keef! The blogosphere just ain't the same without you so we have cancelled all future holidays for you. :D Date Added: 04/11/2005
Jair Santos I am wondering why you said that this blog is a business ? Date Added: 04/11/2005
Gone Away A figure of speech only, Jair. In my case, the blog is definitely not a business and I made a decision some time ago not to make money from it (How To Not Make Money Online). That doesn't apply to other bloggers, of course, and many do make the blog their livelihood. ProBlogger is just one example. I used the term "business" in its wider sense to mean anything that we are engaged in, that keeps us busy. Date Added: 04/11/2005
ME Strauss I come by and what do I see? Clive is stirring up the pot again. :) I've had similar experiences and come to similar conclusions. Some posts, fiction in particular ask a lot of the reader in terms of comments. Yzabel makes the point so clearly--does the author want my critique? I know I would, but I'm not everybody . . . So in that respect fiction can be not just something to pass on because it takes time to read, but actually off-putting to readers. I'll keep writing fiction and poetry on occasion. I just won't look for commentary, except from those who write it too. Date Added: 04/11/2005
Pat Kirby A) I'm not a fan of short fiction. B) I don't like reading fiction online. And finally, as with any fiction, the story has to hook me rather quickly. Most fiction, online and even in pro pubs, doesn't. I'm kind of like a crotchety editor. But...it's your blog. I love getting comments, but I don't necessarily blog for comments. I blogged for quite a while before I got any at all. I post whatever the heck is on on my teeny mind. And it may be, people are enjoying your stories, but simply aren't commenting. Date Added: 04/11/2005
Gone Away Sounds like a sensible strategy to me, Liz. I'll keep posting fiction occasionally because I want to. Just gonna hope I don't put too many readers off... ;) Date Added: 04/11/2005
Gone Away I agree that we don't blog for comments, Pat, but you have to admit it's nice when you get 'em. And, as you say, it's my blog and I fully intend to continue posting the occasional fiction piece. To be honest, I do get comments on such pieces, just not as many as for the other posts. And now I'm feeling guilty for having moaned about it... :| Date Added: 04/11/2005
Jair Santos My 2 cents: 1- People like to comment real life, not fiction; 2- Yes, most of us are just starting on this blog "business" as you said. 3- Don't just change your subject to fiction to seek popularity. It's your blog, it must reflect your mind, not ours. Date Added: 05/11/2005
Gone Away And my reply, Jair: 1 - Some people do comment on fiction. 2 - Depends what you mean by "starting". I've been blogging for over a year - am I still starting? 3 - If it was just popularity I sought, I would hardly post fiction - as I said, that's more like committing blog suicide. I post fiction because it's my blog, just as you say, and I'm a writer. Fiction is an important part of my mind and so I present it along with everything else. :) Date Added: 05/11/2005
Janus Do what you want to do says I. My comments and lack of comments doesn't mean lack of interest, sometimes it means that I have nothing to say other than "That was good." I am not know for my abilities to discuss. Date Added: 09/11/2005
Gone Away You're right, Janus; in the end all we can do is what we do... Date Added: 09/11/2005
ISAY About fiction. There's a quote from Ken Kesey that pretty much represents what good fiction is: "It's the truth, even if it didn't happen." If your fiction does that, particularly for me if it tells the truth of what it's like to try to make a life in a new country, then it must be good. I'm just beginning to explore your blog, so I don't know yet. Date Added: 13/11/2005
Gone Away You'll find my fiction talks about all sorts of things, Isay. But I believe it's really about truth, just as you say. I hope you enjoy it! Date Added: 13/11/2005
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