Mr Salinger and the Haiku 01/10/2005 Over at Stuff Mark Wrote, Mark Allen (no relation, in fact not really his surname) has posted several poems including a few haikus. I don't know if anyone has noticed it, but haikus seem to be spreading through the blogosphere like a contagious disease. Fortunately, I seem to have been inoculated against this particular infection for I find nothing attractive or special about this particular poetic form.Maybe in Japanese the haiku is a wondrous thing but I wouldn't know since I have only about three words of the language (all culled from that Richard Chamberlain TV series, Shogun). It appears to me that, in English, the haiku is not poetry at all but merely a statement of the obvious pretending to be deep and significant.Being quite willing to be wrong by virtue of my entrapment in the western way of thinking, I never comment on haikus in blogs but I do read them occasionally, perhaps in the hope of receiving unexpected enlightenment as to their worth. And it was in reading one of Mark's haikus that I was reminded of Mr Salinger.Jerome David Salinger, usually referred to as J.D., is the one I mean. He happens to be my favorite writer of the 20th Century, even though I don't consider him to be quite the best. His output was meager but everything he wrote is a jewel, a sparkling gem of clarity and flow. Like all other Salinger fans, I lament the fact that he opted to become a recluse in some remote corner of New Hampshire and to stop releasing his writings to the world.The connection with haikus comes from Mr Salinger's story, Seymour - An Introduction, a piece of writing so short that it had to be partnered with another, Raise High the Roofbeam, Carpenters, to constitute a (still slim) book. Like all his books apart from Catcher in the Rye and a collection of short stories, Seymour is concerned with a member of the Glass family and is narrated by Buddy Glass. Buddy speaks of his elder brother, Seymour, almost with awe and makes particular reference to his production of haikus.I read Seymour for the first time in the mid-sixties. It was also the first time I heard of the haiku. There being no examples given in the book, I assumed (correctly, as it turned out) that it was a form of Japanese poetry. At Mr Salinger's suggestion, I also imbued it with virtues of depth and meaning beyond my humble mind to comprehend and, having done so, proceeded to enjoy the rest of the story.The years have passed and I have read and learned much of Eastern things, including the haiku. I have looked at Hinduism, Taoism and all the various schools of Buddhism, including Zen. I have heard the oft-repeated admonishment that these things are too deep for a western mind to understand, that we have to approach them with humility and accept that much will escape us. And, having thought and pondered and considered for many a year, I have to admit that my response can be summed up with one word: baloney.There is nothing in this world thought by a human that cannot be understood by another human, no matter how much they may be separated by time, distance and culture. With a reasonable amount of study, anything can become clear to anyone. And so it is with Eastern things; Eastern thinking is just as logical as Western thought if examined to any depth. This mystical awe that the westerner is supposed to bring to any study of the Orient is an addition inserted into our attitudes by those westerners who have revolted against their own culture and wish to be seen as superior because they understand the East. Once again, I can only say baloney.There is nothing obscure, mystical or superior in the development of Eastern thought. There are logical steps in the growth of Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism from Hinduism and from there to Tibetan Buddhism and Zen. If we were not so cowed by the suggestion that Eastern thought is "beyond us", we would see that it is a structure of thought no more valid or invalid than our own philosophies.And so it is with the haiku. This verse form developed by the Japanese with their love of the miniature and of tight construction is not some magical formula for reaching deeper into the truth of life than any western verse form. Japanese exponents of the art have made some pretty statements with it and they are even prettier before translation into English, I'm sure. But they have nothing to say that cannot be said in any of our western forms of poetry too.So let us be clear about this haiku; let us strip away the myth and see it for what it is: a highly-regimented and constrictive verse form that is extremely difficult to master. It is not some easy way for us to jot down stray thoughts in a certain number of syllables, just as western poetry is not either.Anyone can write bad poetry; in fact, most of us do in our late teenage years. To write good poetry, however, is the most difficult thing a writer can choose to do. In any generation the number of great poets can be counted on the fingers of one hand. If you decide to "be a poet", be assured that, whatever form you choose to work in, you are opting for the most difficult task ever invented by mankind. The chances of your success are almost infinitesimal and, even if you slave away long and hard enough to write some good poems, the rewards are so paltry that they will not even pay for your daily crust.I have no objection if people are happy to write their poetry without thought of ever being a poet; I've written some pretty awful stuff myself. But, please, let's get over this thing with thinking that haikus are a quick route to greatness and that real poetry can be produced in five minutes.Please be assured that I am not directing this tirade against anyone in particular; it is a general rant, just an opinion. If it makes you feel insecure, then I apologize but would suggest that your security should be in your work, not my opinion. Dismiss me, that's my advice.
Clive
Mark “I find nothing attractive or special about this particular poetic form.” But did you like mine? That’s all that really matters. :) Some poets inspire awe. I inspire rants. Oh well, inspiration is inspiration. Hey, at least I don’t write poems/haikus about my cat or my action figure collection. :) I do have to agree with you though. Bad poetry is rampant throughout the blogosphere. That’s the risk we all taking when anyone with an Internet connection can set up a blog and self-publish. Although there are some of us, who know the odds we are up against, who know the backlash that poetry/haikus can bring, who still – against all odds – strive to do it well. Who take the time to develop good poetry/haikus. Just because it’s abused and butchered by the hacks doesn’t mean it should be discarded. Better always shines bright in the light of bad. Date Added: 01/10/2005
Mad Ah I'm not alone in standing at the feet of the Zen masters with an irrepressible urge to say bollocks out loud… Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away Hey, I gave you the link, Mark. ;) As for the latest haiku, I disagree with Glod - I think cancer and asbestos go well together. But, like all haikus, it leaves me thinking, "And? Surely there's more..." My real comment is the one on your latest post. How dare you get so good! Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away What can I say, Mad? You're your father's son... ;) Do you remember when I asked Peter the famous Zen question, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" and he answered by clapping his hand against his leg? Perhaps that sums it up. Date Added: 01/10/2005
Mad That was ME not Peter. Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away Was it? Oh well, blame it on the old man's creeping senility... ;) Date Added: 01/10/2005
Mad I already had... Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away .oO(That's mah boy...) Date Added: 01/10/2005
Mark Poetry is my pass time. Writing is my passion. I think the poetry makes me a better writer. It helps me capture the meaning of a passage or paragraph in a focused way. Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away Good point, Mark. And, judging from your latest post, it's working. ;) Date Added: 01/10/2005
John (SYNTAGMA) Haiku can be tiresome, I grant you, especially English translations. The only one I know that works is :
An ancient pond,A frog jumps in,PLOP!
The Japanese for the last line/word is "The sound of water". But oh, that PLOP! Makes me go all shivery :-)
Clive, there are mystics all around the world who don't need Eastern or Western religious forms to know what they "know". If you know where to look, you can find information as deep in the West : St. Theresa of Avila's writings, Thomas Merton, etc. You don't need a guru, or a religion, to understand, if you rely on "experience" rather than human knowledge. Zen recognizes that, which is why it's so spare and leaves everything to you. The Japanese Satori is ... "Just so!" ... Recognition of the truth. But you won't believe it until you've experienced it, which is quite right. PLOP! Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away So essentially you're agreeing with me, John? That you don't have to be western or eastern or any other -ern to understand? PLOP indeed, in that case! :D Date Added: 01/10/2005
John (SYNTAGMA) Absolutely, Clive, only the language changes. Btw, I once wrote a couple of haiku myself, about an experience I had. Here they are :
Unexpectedly swimmingin air and space.Casting off body-mind.
A stream of teafrom pot to cup.Returning to normality.
Nothing else would express that experience, certainly not a load of intellectual twaddle. Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away .oO(Aaaarrgghh! Haikus in my blog - Mad will never forgive me!) Date Added: 01/10/2005
Broken Messenger Clive, I've always found haikus (the well thought out ones that is) to be very meditative. I also appreciate the discipline and wordsmithing that is required to produce an effective haiku. Could it be that your self-professed failings pertaining to brevity has biased your judgment here...? ;o) An inquiring mind wants to know...sort of. By the way, your writing is inspiring to me. In just a few short reads I am not only a fan, but a student. Thank you, Clive. Brad Date Added: 01/10/2005
Gone Away "Self-professed failings pertaining to brevity"? You could have something there, Brad. Although I know full well that we cannot know everything, that doesn't stop me from trying. And I'm glad someone has stood up for the haiku; you're right, I'm biased and am bound to be missing something. Heck, if Salinger regards them so highly, who am I to say otherwise? Yet it remains my opinion... ;) Thank you for the kind words regarding my writing. In common with all artists, appreciation is my food and drink. :) Date Added: 01/10/2005
Scot "The place to improve the world is first in one's heart and head and hands, and then work outward from there. Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle" Pirsig, Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, (1974, p. 267). Clive: I am really beginning to enjoy your work. You make a good argument with this, but I also appreciate the sentiment you express by recognizing that writing a poem, whether haiku or otherwise, requires a clarity of vision that stretches beyond seventeen syllables. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away D'you know, Scot, I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance way back when it was first published. What bothers me is that I know I enjoyed it but can't remember a single thing about it beyond that! But the piece got away from me, Scot; it was supposed to be about haikus and the link with Salinger, but then it expanded suddenly and I realized that what I was saying applies to all poetry. I wish there were a word for the stuff we scribble to get rid of a few emotions so that we could stop calling it poetry. There is precious little of the real thing about... Date Added: 02/10/2005
Mark I appreciate the link and all Clive but I’m beginning to feel I’ve been given a left-handed compliment. You state, “I wish there were a word for the stuff we scribble to get rid of a few emotions so that we could stop calling it poetry. There is precious little of the real thing about...” I know you were not referring directly to my site – I seriously know you would not set about offending anyone so publicly - but this post, as the comments are developing, does not paint my site in a very favorable light. The intent was not there, I know that in my heart, but the inference can surely be drawn, as the only site mentioned specifically by name that, “here is a link to an example of what I mean by bad poetry/haikus.” Maybe I’m being overly sensitive, we creative types tend to be but put yourself in my shoes and see if you would not feel the same. Nothing can be done about it now but I’m beginning to regret the ‘if not negative at least less than favorable’ publicity. Then again maybe the saying is true, there is no such thing as bad publicity. :) Time will tell. Thanks again, I think. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away I see your point, Mark, but the inference is not meant. The link went in because the comments on your site made me think of Mr Salinger. And, as I mentioned above, the darn post got away from me and became more than it had set out to be. In the beginning there was no intention to rant against bad poetry, just to show the link with Salinger's work and talk about him. In the event, I dropped that and followed the rant instead, hence my disclaimer at the end. Let me assure you and anyone reading this that I was not pointing at Mark's site as an example of bad anything; indeed, I consider Mark to be one of the most talented writers in the blogosphere. As for the haikus and as I pointed out in the article, I don't comment on them because I can't see their point, even the good ones. :) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Mark Thanks Clive. Paranoia subsiding… sanity returning… and what do you mean ONE of the most talented writers in the blogosphere? Kidding. Just kidding. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Hey, remember I'm writing in the blogosphere too... ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Mark Duly noted. :) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Trée Clive, I love baloney; have since a small child and I resent you taking the name of baloney in vain. I expect a public apology on this matter since I know in your heart you did not mean any ill intent. ;-) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Trée, any good Northern European detests Italian sausage. There must be some reason the word has also come to mean nonsense! But you're right, I must apologize if I have offended baloney-eaters anywhere. As recompense, a good German sausage has been mailed to you today and should reach you, oh, who knows with the vagaries of snail mail today...? :D By the way, 53 comments the last time I looked - not bad, not bad... ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Trée Clive, my family was poor when I was growing up and baloney was something we ate on a weekly basis. Oh, I must stop with all this, dare I say "baloney"; although I did grow up on a almost daily diet of baloney sandwiches and I was tempted to buy some more today but decided on chicken and ham as the more respectable choices. ;-) 53 comments . . .Mmm . . . I must have taken your advice to always reply to any comment since I think about 26 or so of those comments are mine--lol. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Very true about half of the comments being from the blogger. But you must admit that joining in the conversation keeps 'em coming. ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Trée Clive, truth you have spoken. As always, I admire leadership by example. ;-) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Oh and I forgot to mention - cheeky little photo you have on your blog today! ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Mark Okay I got the message Tree. Your subtly was not lost. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Sometimes you Americans... The trick, Mark, is to ignore any hidden meanings. Most of the time they're not meant anyway. ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
ME Strauss Wonderful post. Marvelous discussion all of the way to the very last comment, which I would like to have to make into a poster Ignore any hidden meanings. Most of the time they're not meant anyway.There is a quote worth quoting. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Janus I never grasped the Haiku, they made me do a few in highschool but I have enough trouble with standard poetry with less rules, the Haiku is rather hellish to me. Its a shame people are filling up blogs with bad haikus (and poetry in a lot of cases) since I thought I could escape them by not taking more English classes and avoiding tea shops in the cultural sections of the city. And don't think I was offended by yesterday or todays writing, I only act offended and surprised about grammar and my lack of material. I know you are ranting and you aren't aiming at anyone in particular (I think.) I enjoy your rants, keep em up. I will resist writing a bad haiku in my comment. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Thank you, Liz. You're welcome to the quote, although I think it sounds like something from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory! :D Date Added: 02/10/2005
John (SYNTAGMA) Well, I reckon the pro-Haiku Buffaloes have narrowly thrashed the anti-Haiku Rhinos. Good result everyone. Keep in training! Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Your blog is far too enjoyable for me to complain about it, Janus. And it's completely haiku-free! ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away You didn't see the goal I scored just as the final whistle blew, John! :D Date Added: 02/10/2005
Mark It's your blog. You get the final say and the final shot. I just hope the victory was worth it? At least I finally saw who I was really playing the game with. Goodbye Clive. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Mark, if you wish to see the game as being against yourself, there's not much I can do about that. It wasn't. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Trée Mark, I for one enjoy the Haiku. As Clive has said in the past, "one man's meat is another man's poison," and so it is. Clive did hit the nail on the head in that my baloney comments had no hidden or subtle meaning whatsoever. I wrote them to have a little fun with Clive since he seemed to be in a bit of hot water. Any other meaning taken is the work of the readers imagination. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Dark Forest japanese people think they are unique, that they have special qualities that other don't. although i truely respect and love the japanese culture i believe that this notion is balony. haiku can be special i guess, maybe you havn't read the right poet. i know i don't usualy relate with poems, but maybe someday i could find some poet who can. haiku is a form of art - weather you see a good piece or a bad one, it's just a matter of time, space, and luck. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Dark forest nice blog by the way. im definetly going to check it further. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Mark I’m an ass. I really am. There's no other explanation. Most of you here are writers too. You know how protective you can become of your creations, your word children. Although none of this was directed at my site or me I choose to take offense (when none was given) in defense of the haiku form, which I love so very much. You and Clive are right Tree, “One man's meat is another man's poison.” I just lost sight of that in all this. The blogosphere we both travel in is far too small Clive. We’re going to run into each other at a family reunion (the same blogs we travel) somewhere, sometime. We don’t, I don’t, need the negativity that cripples creativity or the broken fellowship that we online writers share. So I extend this olive branch. I admit I was wrong. I apologize to you and your readers Clive and ask that you please forgive my behavior here these past two days. Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away Thanks, Dark. It's true that the Japanese think they're special but I think that's true of all nations, don't you? We are all convinced that, in one way or another, we have the edge on everyone else. As for the haiku, you may be right that some day I'll stumble across one that opens my eyes. :) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Gone Away No apology necessary, Mark - I understand completely. And I must apologize for having bashed the haiku when I know that it's just a matter of personal taste. Got a bit carried away, I guess. ;) Date Added: 02/10/2005
Josh I wrote this in high school, and can still quote it from memory. Falling from airplane Ground rushing towards me fast Oops, no parachute. Splatter like noodles Fettucine alfredo Ouch, that hurt real bad. Date Added: 03/10/2005
Josh Damn, forgot line breaks. Haiku ain't so funny now Please, fix my comment. Date Added: 03/10/2005
Gone Away It has a certain je ne sais quoi, Josh. ;) Date Added: 03/10/2005
Madmin Happy now? Date Added: 03/10/2005
Josh Gosh, bubs, you sound like my landlord. :) Date Added: 03/10/2005
Gone Away He's my landlord! Date Added: 03/10/2005
Mad That's a point, where's my rent? Date Added: 03/10/2005
Gone Away As chief copywriter, I'm waiting for my pay to arrive... Date Added: 03/10/2005
Garnet Well, I've missed most of the party here. It took me awhile to find the time to read this post, plus the comment string. (I'm slow) John (syntagma) wrote "You don't need a guru, or a religion, to understand, if you rely on "experience" rather than human knowledge. Zen recognizes that, which is why it's so spare and leaves everything to you. The Japanese Satori is ... "Just so!" ... Recognition of the truth. But you won't believe it until you've experienced it, which is quite right. PLOP! " I liked this description of Zen, which is non-intellectual. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this contrary to the views you expressed about Eastern complexity in your post, Mr. Gone? I've always grappled with the problem of translating the "a priori" (Made before or without examination; not supported by factual study.) experience of events into words. Haiku's form, when followed, is able to come close to framing a fragment of reality with a few syllables in a way which points to the event without recreating it, without disturbing it. Plop! And I enjoyed the playful way Mr. Broken Messanger pinned you down, with "Could it be that your self-professed failings pertaining to brevity has biased your judgment here...? ;o)" Oh, what we could all learn of tasteful intellectual sparring from this gentleman. I always enjoy your take on things. Gets me to thinking, and thinking...This post included. Date Added: 04/10/2005
Gone Away Ah, Garnet, you have seen through me! Sometimes I let my emotions carry me away and that is what happened with this post. I think you're the first to have noticed that I end up saying something rather different from what I started with. ;) But any of my "opinion posts" are just that - they are intended as conversation starters, not as a laying down of the law. I have learned quite a bit from this one; for instance, I had no idea that the haiku was studied as a part of the American school syllabus. This is not so in England or its former empire and perhaps illustrates why I find it a puzzling thing. You say it in your final sentence, Garnet: gets me to thinking. It does me too and that's what matters. Thanks for your astute observations. :) Date Added: 04/10/2005
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