Humor and Humour 13/09/2005 Let's face it, humor and humour are two different things. Although the Americans and the British can understand many of each other's jokes, there are areas of comedy where one nation will stare at the other in blank incomprehension. Yet both have specialties (specialities) in which they excel and there is some sharing of television comedy shows between the two nations.A few British TV shows make it all the way across the Atlantic without amendment; Monty Python's Flying Circus and The Benny Hill Show spring to mind. And both of these examples are interesting in that they represent the adolescent side of Brit humor, the sort of surreal jokes that schoolboys or university students make in their wilder moments.Does this mean that the Americans are only able to appreciate a simpler, zany sort of humor? I think not for, when we look at American comedies, we find a degree of sophistication that destroys that theory. It is much more that the slapstick element in the two shows mentioned is a common language between many cultures, a comedic language that is easily understood by almost everyone. Why, even Mr Bean (cringe) succeeded in America.Notice that generally American shows can be imported into Britain without editing and that there are far more of them than those that make the crossing in the other direction. I can think of several straight away: WKRV, Taxi, Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, Friends. The list is almost endless and they are all sitcoms, a genre that the Brits still mistakenly imagine that they do best.The British sitcom is an awful creature, rarely funny and unremittingly depressing. Just occasionally, a Brit sitcom will sneak into America under the auspices of PBS. Keeping Up Appearances is one that I've seen over here; it has a small American following but I merely find it irritating and embarrassing, probably because it's just too close to the truth to be funny.The fact is that Americans do sitcom far better than the Brits. There is a surrealistic quality to their best offerings that ought to be present in British sitcoms but never is. We fill our sitcoms with the old guard of acting and give them lines to read that we think are sophisticated but turn out to be merely obvious. Surrealism we leave to Monty Python.So the Brits do not find it necessary to change American sitcoms in any way; we happily accept and understand them. It's the game shows that we decide need to be changed to suit our market and there are any number of British copies of American inventions in this genre.The Americans, however, have the good sense to leave Brit game shows very much alone (can you imagine an American Pot Black?) but will sometimes take a British comedy show and attempt to produce an American version. A while ago I saw an attempt to Americanize Fawlty Towers and it was, frankly, awful. Some producer had failed to realize that the essential ingredient to the show was always going to be John Cleese.On rare occasions, this type of American import has some measure of success. Archie Bunker of All In The Family is an example, although I doubt many Americans realize that he is a copy of Alf Garnet from Till Death Do Us Part. Yet so much is lost in the translation; Archie falls way short of the abrasive, unrelenting, cutting sharpness of Alf. And this illustrates the reason for America wanting to copy some Brit shows rather than allow them air time in the States: sometimes British humor is just too harsh and vicious for general consumption.I suppose that the differences in the two nations' sense of humor has come about partly through development over the last two centuries but also because America has had the injection of so many different nationalities, each with its own brand of humor.Some years ago a friend of mine married a lady from Sweden and went to live there. On one of his return visits to England he confessed to me that he did not understand the Swedish sense of humor. Apparently they would find quite ordinary events hilarious but, when he tried English jokes on them, he'd be met with blank stares. Of course, as an Englishman, my natural response was amazement that the Swedes had a sense of humor at all, but the story does show that the Americans and British are not so far apart in their understanding of comedy. In just some areas there is a lack of comprehension.As an instance of this, I find no equivalent in America of the British love of wordplay. This is something so natural to the Brits that it often occurs in the course of ordinary conversation. Certain words seem to be catalysts for it; "chicken" is probably the most likely to start off a rapid exchange of silly sentences:"He had chickens in the back garden, you know.""Really? And no-one sent him up before the beak?""Nah, that would have been a poultry thing to do.""Well I wasn't going to lay down the law about it.""Eggzactly. Not something to brood over at all.""Yes, if a feller wants to feather his nest, why try to coop him up?""Flocked if I know..."That sort of conversation just doesn't happen in the States. I've tried to start them but people just look at me as if I'm weird. And I suppose it is a strange way to get a laugh, to build an impromptu competition for the snappiest pun.I just miss it sometimes, that's all...
Clive
John (SYNTAGMA) It's always said that Americans don't do irony. You put your finger on why. Irony is so subtle it can easily be taken literally, with disastrous results. With so many nationalities there, you can't afford to be subtle, you have to spell it out for fear of misunderstandings. Alas, the same thing is happening here. British humour is not what it was. Date Added: 13/09/2005
Mad I will agree that most Brit sitcoms are awful but occasionally they get it just right. "Red Dwarf" and "My Family" spring to mind. It is also true that Brit humour can be very vicious, something I hadn't thought about until recently. From "The Office" (which I find too painful to watch) to Brit humour in the work place the twist of the knife adds the element of danger that can be hilarious. As for the Swedes? I love 'em. My Swedish friends Rolf and Paula think I'm hilarious which I heartily enjoyed. I didn't even have to do anything funny, they just thought I was... actually thinking about the Thai's think I'm funny too. .o0(I can live without the pun game however) Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away Never tell that to an American, John. They do irony, it's just that they do it so well it shoots above our heads. ;)
That's the strange thing I found when I was writing this - on both sides of the Atlantic there are times when there is great subtlety in humor and others where we descend to slapstick. But it's in the choice of when these things are appropriate that the difference comes. Much misunderstanding results from one other side resorting to subtlety when the other is least expecting it. Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away Red Dwarf is an exception mainly because it's Monty Python meets Blake Seven. I never saw My Family and wish I'd never even heard of The Office (seriously unfunny). The fact that the Americans have done a copy of The Office is completely incomprehensible to me.
But I can see how it must be gratifying to get a whole nation laughing without exerting oneself at all. It might worry me a bit if they kept on laughing, however... Date Added: 13/09/2005
Mad I've often wondered if I could've been a mega famous comedian in Thailand... Date Added: 13/09/2005
ME Strauss You have hit on something there, Clive in using the word *when*. We Americans have our puns and our subtle dry humor, but I've found that we use it at totally different times. We're all for comic relief on one hand and find it totally in appropriate on the other. Often it depends which group you are in. My experience is that our version of the *pun game* is more of a game of verbal volleyball, as in this exchange. When I met my (shorter) husband I asked my friend Kathy the bartend to get *the little guy a drink.* He questioned that. I went over to stand beside him. He looked at my long, narrow feet and said, "Do you ski?" Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away Mad: What's the pay like? ;) Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away That is really funny, Liz, and illustrates the point of this article very well. That exchange could never have happened in Britain!
I shouldn't say this but I can't resist the temptation: Your shorter husband? Where was the taller one at the time? :D Date Added: 13/09/2005
Josh Last of the Summer Wine is a completely unexplainable favorite of mine. I identify with CLegg; don't ask me why. Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away I agree, Josh; Last of the Summer Wine has a strong attraction, perhaps because it's humor is gentle and inoffensive. And everyone wants to be Clegg - the observer, not quite as insane as the others but willing to travel with them... Date Added: 13/09/2005
Kurt Perhaps it's the company I keep, or the fact that I live among a bunch of honors university students, but I've never found a lack of wordplay among the circles I travel in here. In fact, exchanges like the one above occur at the very least several times weekly. Perhaps Clive should be spending more time with the younger crowd? Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away Perhaps indeed, Kurt. I confess that this was an "angling post", some bait laid out to see whether the art of wordplay is still alive and flourishing in some corner of America. You have given me new hope if it survives amongst the students, at least! Date Added: 13/09/2005
Beltane I could just wallow away in Brit humor all day long and be delightfully happy. One of my favorite drama shows is Spooks (they call it MI-5 in the states, it airs on A&E). I think the thing I love about Brit humor the most is the wordplay, the intelligence of it and the dryness. I think it's really the dryness that goes over most Americans heads. For the average American, Dumb and Dumber really was the pinnacle. *sigh* While I do get a kick out of toilet humor when in the mood, it's not our best example. Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away Ah yes, Beltane, we do like our humor dry and delivered with a poker face. But there is good American comedy around too, much better Dumb and Dumber. I can watch Seinfeld repeats until I know them off by heart... Date Added: 13/09/2005
Autumn Wonderfully comprehensive post! The chicken dialogue brought about the giggles :o) Other people's humour is the hardest reaction of all to understand. Date Added: 13/09/2005
Gone Away Yes indeed, Autumn. And the worst thing of all is to try to explain a joke to someone who doesn't understand! Date Added: 13/09/2005
John You are so spot on Clive, great post, and I loved the joke, must tell it at Church on Sunday! :) GBYAY Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Nothing like a good pun, hey, John. ;) Date Added: 14/09/2005
Stuart There is much that mystifies me about America Clive, not just the humour. Take the Croc Hunter for example - many Australians think he's a complete idiot and yet the Americans love him. And the true professional croc hunters here in Australia can't work out why the crocs haven't eaten him yet. Perhaps its because he makes crocs feel rather safe ;) Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Ah, the Croc Hunter, now you're talking! I think the reason for his popularity here is similar to stock car racing. Much as everyone watches that in the hopes that there'll be a huge pile up, the Croc Hunter is fascinating because we keep hoping he'll make a mistake and get eaten... ;) Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer Another great post Gone you are on a roll.The whole things buttered me up nicely. Anyway i cant loaf about here i have some learning to do, crumbs is that the time. Still im glad i managed to sandwich this in between modules Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away You were never one to slice things too thinly, Keef. It comes of being so well-bread, I suppose. But filling your time with reading and commenting upon my blog is no picnic, as I'm sure you know. Too much of that and you're toast! Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer I hadnt thought of that.........Doh! Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away .oO(There he goes, the flour of his generation...) Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer enough of your half baked comments. You need a bap on the head. Although there may be a grain of truth in it. How long can we grind this one out? Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away As long as the wind turns the windmill. You don't think I'd rise to that, do you? This is more than I knead. I've half a mind to batter you about the ears. That'll get you browned off, I'm sure. Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer you want a pizza me? well do ya? Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away That one's a bit corny, you know. Spreading it on a bit thick, I might say. You'll be wanting jam on it next... Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer maybe ive bitten off a bit more than i can chew. Well now we have sorted the wheat fronm the chaff i hope your appetite for this type of comedy has been sated Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Well, I am replete. I'll not give you a good threshing after all. But remember for next time: I'm a crusty old soul. :D Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer you may be a crusty old soul but your eyes are just glazed over Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Comes from raisin Cain... Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer i hope thats not sour grapes Date Added: 14/09/2005
Delmonti Hmmm.... The Americans can never, NEVER come close to these new BBC sitcoms. Extras Nighty Night Date Added: 14/09/2005
This field is required I know they are ancient now but what about "The Good Life" and 'As time goes by" I agree, Spooks is a great show and Inspector Morse, too bad he carked it! Yeah those word games were a bit.......well you know, Anyhow great reading for one who is 'gone Glenni Date Added: 14/09/2005
glenniah I am not a field I am glenniah. Date Added: 14/09/2005
Madmin Hahahaha! Date Added: 14/09/2005
vanessa Interesting topic. There is indeed a big difference between american and british comedy, but let's not forget about canada either;) Wow. How do I say anything here without it being miscontrued? I'm fearful I'll get backlash but here goes.... The truth of the matter is, canadians and the brits both share a love of self-deprecating humour. I think it's in the water. Sure it's fun to make fun of someone else, but it's always funnier to make fun of yourself. Generally speaking, americans just don't get that. They don't like to make fun of themselves, just others :P It's all fair game here though. Did that sound anti-american? It wasn't, I assure you. I pass no judgements, it's purely observation:) Oh. And yay. AbFab. I HAD to throw that in. I couldn't live myself if I didn't. Thank you for that. Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Ah, Dave (Delmonti), I'm glad you came by - I had entirely forgotten to revisit your blog and expound at great length upon the crane fly. I love your blog, by the way - there's just something so cool about it. How's the hip?
As for new Brit sitcoms, are they still churning them out? Hardly worth the trouble, I'd have thought. Still, I suppose it keeps the same old faces in a job... :D Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Well, Glenni, Spooks I've never seen but the other two you mention are typical of what I'm talking about - vehicles for has-been actors to keep pulling the money in.
As for being a field, it's okay, we won't grass on you or turf you out... :D Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Canada, Vanessa? That's rather an obscure subject, isn't it? ;)
But seriously, I agree that the Canadians seem to have a lot in common with the Brits, although I wasn't aware that this extended to their sense of humor. They make some weird cartoons, however... Date Added: 14/09/2005
Kitty I like the post. I can see you've got sense of humor hehe. Apart from Canda, let's not forget about Australia too. Aussies are more sacarstic in their humor i reckon. Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Thanks, Kitty. I think I like Australian humor more than anyone else's - it is nothing if not direct! :D Date Added: 14/09/2005
Mad Difference between a pot of yogurt and Australia? Left out of the fridge the yogurt will develop a culture. I'll... get my coat Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away You're a brave man, Mad! :D Date Added: 14/09/2005
Mad I shall hide behind my online anonymity! Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away And a wise one! Date Added: 14/09/2005
Beltane Bah, I love the Croc Hunter not becuase I want to see if he's eaten - but because of his enthusiasm and his genuine love of animals - and I'll admit, his derring do. He's very brave, and that's always attractive to watch and enjoy. I know some Aussies, and yeah, he's silly a bit to them, but honestly, there is nothing wrong with the guy! :p Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away And, Beltane, as we all know, croc wrestling is a national sport in Australia! ;) Date Added: 14/09/2005
Yzabel Interesting topic... should I say "as usual"? The very first time I saw british humour in action was through the Benny Hil lshows, but I think I'd better leave them aside here, since they were a) translated in French and b) I was 7-8, and very likely just too young to understand anything. Later on, our English teacher in high school decided that we had to watch a few movies and sketches of the Monty Pythons, and I fell over laughing. She used to call that and "understatement" kind of humour, although I'm not sure the word is fully appropriate. Now, let me tell you that many French people absolutely don't understand it (in fact, American's seem to work better here, and I'm not sure it's just a matter of good translations). Among all my friends, I'm the only one who's ever laughed at the yoghurt-looking aliens turning british people into Scottish ones so that they could win the Wimbledon tournament (I love this sketch). I dig out Red Dwarf, too. Either I'm totally weird or a british-born person in the body of a French one ;) As a sidenote, I indeed see hwo the quoted conversation is funny. In France, this kind of things don't work very well, though--or should I say, they work when written, but speech just doesn't convey them well. Date Added: 14/09/2005
Yzabel Note for further use: one day, I swear I'll learn to put HTML codes in these comments to make line breaks... Sorry again for the block of text. Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away That's interesting, Yzabel - are you saying that puns work in print in French but not in speech? Puns in English are always better when spoken... Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer Goscinny and Uderzo (hope they are spelt right) use a lot of wordplay humour in their Asterix books. Yet the only french performer that leaps to mind is Marcel Marceau.......If french humour doesnt work when spoken then maybe he was trying to tell us somthing after all. Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away Umm yes, Keef... (is in awe at Keef's ability to spell Goscinny and Uderzo correctly) ;) Date Added: 14/09/2005
Mad Don't be fooled he looked it up on Google ;) Date Added: 14/09/2005
Gone Away .oO(Hehehehe) Date Added: 14/09/2005
keeefer If i looked it up on google id have probably got some bizarre porn site or their 1967 tax returns Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away .oO(The man has a point...) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Ashley I must be one of the few Americans that enjoys the exchange of puns. I'm so out of practice now that I'm sure I'd never win any contest with a Brit, though I do take my small joys where I can. My husband just gives me an odd look and ignores it. *sigh* Date Added: 15/09/2005
English Comedy VS. American Comedy American's wouldn't know the real meaning of 'Comedy' if it bit them on the ass! WKRV, Taxi, Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, and Friends makes for rather dull T.V. (Please note: Have fallen asleep watching Seinfeld because it wasn’t funny). Fawlty Towers staring John Cleese makes American comedy seem somewhat amateurish in comparison. I love to laugh. You 'Yanks' should try it sometime. Date Added: 15/09/2005
keeefer seems a bit harsh to me. American comedy influences English comedy quite heavily. If you look at the anarchic comedy of the Marx Brothers then compare it to the goon show the influences on people like Milligan, sellers etc are quite clear. It is from these roots that Dudley Moore and peter cooke draw their influences who in turn inspire Monty Python. To dismiss american humour so readily is very naieve. Besides any country that can re-elect Bush is surely capable of a level of sarcastic humour far beyond us Brits :) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away Well, it seems there are still some Americans out there who enjoy a good pun, Ashley, so you're not alone! :) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away And I beg to differ, ECVAC. In my humble estimation, Seinfeld is the funniest show that's been on TV for years. But I guess one man's meat is another man's poison... Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away And it seems immigrant Ozzies know a thing or two about sarcasm too, Keef. ;) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gary We used to get "Faulty Towers" here on PBS, and I thought that was pretty good. Of course, it had John Cleese and he's very popular here. Your wordplay is what we call puns here, the lowest form of humor. Actually, right here in Austin we have the annual O'Henry Museum Pun Off. Two contestants are given a category like, for example, "meat." And then the word butchers take turns serving up lean phrases containing some meat reference. If either of the meatballs can't grind out a pun, he or she is trimmed off and chucked out and the remaining hot dog moves on to the next chopping block where the steaks are higher. Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gary I just realized it was "Fawlty Towers." More wordplay Date Added: 15/09/2005
keeefer Gary, 'Your wordplay is what we call puns here, the lowest form of humor' thats certainly a bone of contention Date Added: 15/09/2005
Yzabel That's interesting, Yzabel - are you saying that puns work in print in French but not in speech? Puns in English are always better when spoken... I'm not a specialist at French humour myself--well, alright, to be honest, our comedians simply don't make me laugh very often, so I also don't watch them often--but indeed, I don't find it very... easy to make puns work in speech. Perhaps this is due to spelling and pronunciation: often, to make a pun work, we'd need to insist heavily on the spelling, which makes it awkward if thrown in in a conversation. Keeefer mentioned the Asterix example, which I find illustrates it well enough. Reading the books is hilarious, and the puns work very well, but as soon as you try to read them out loud, they seem to just fall flat, and it's "not the same anymore". Going to give an example here that I find pretty lame, but that illustrates the point: there's an old, old pun that goes as follows: "Comment vas-tu... yau de poêle". It can't be rendered at all by a translation, though. Basically, the pun works on "Comment vas-tu" (=How are you) and the word "tuyau de poêle" (=stovepipe), since once sentence ends with "tu" and the other beings with the same syllable. Written, it's easy to understand, albeit not very funny, I think. Spoken, it's not the same at all, since the word "tuyau" is normally pronounced "tu-i-o", and not "tu-yo" (if this makes sense--drats, I suck at phonetics, sorry). As said, the pun is lame anyway, but it falls even flatter when spoken. And now, everyone here will know how French humour can really suck. Date Added: 15/09/2005
Mad Wow, your local comedy club must be a riot Yzabel... Date Added: 15/09/2005
glenniah Speaking of turf and fields, reminds me of fielding which makes me think that if the Brits are taking the Ashes away from the best cricket team in the world (TAKE NOTE MAD, Im looking for you *grin*), then they don't have much time to be concerned with comedy. Mind you, that "freddie" flintoff is a bit of a comedian in his own way. I wonder if Seinfeld would be interested in him. Date Added: 15/09/2005
Mad "Best team in the world"? Tish pshaw, that tiny little urn Freddie was waving about says we're the best regardless of ranking.... ;) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away Gary: Well, well, once again I'm proved wrong by an American. That was a pretty meaty answer; no need to beef it up at all. And, to me, funnier than Mutton Jeff! :D Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away Yzabel: I learned French for too many years at school but have got to admit that it's still Greek to me. Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away Glenniah: As I recall it, the Ashes are supposed to be the ashes of English cricket, produced on the first occasion Australia beat them. In which case, they belong to us anyway... ;) Date Added: 15/09/2005
vanessa keef, I believe the saying goes... a pun is the lowest form of humour, unless you thought of it yourself ;) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away I was always told that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. The pun, however, is an entirely different art form. :D Date Added: 15/09/2005
Mad Awwww ain't Candians nice >:) Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away Every single one of them, Mad. :D Date Added: 15/09/2005
Yzabel Mad: Heh. When I said we suck at humour, I wasn't... joking. Clive: Told you that it couldn't really be translated, but don't worry, it wasn't even funny to start with, so if it remains Greek to you, no biggie. :D Date Added: 15/09/2005
Gone Away I wanted to add something about being a Dutchman if I could understand it, Yzabel, but I thought it might suffer in the translation... ;) Date Added: 15/09/2005
vanessa Nice? NICE? Sheesh, you must be talking about the wrong country my friend. I mean, you JERK! :) Did I ever tell you I once sent 10 puns to a friend in hopes of cheering them up. Didn't work. No pun in ten did. :( Date Added: 19/09/2005
Gone Away Groan.... All right, we're even, Vanessa. ;) Date Added: 19/09/2005
vanessa A groan is the highest compliment for a pun is it not? Date Added: 19/09/2005
Mad .o0(She's just soooo nice) Date Added: 19/09/2005
Gone Away Indeed so, Vanessa - All mine are met by groans. :D Date Added: 20/09/2005
vanessa good! just checkin' ;) bubs do you want me to come over there and hit you with my beavertail? it may take awhile... the snowmobile needs to warm up. Yep, yep, we're just chock full of maple-y goodness. (You are soooo jealous, I can tell...) Date Added: 20/09/2005
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