Comments on 'Remembering Ayrton' on F1 Insight

Comment by Dan M

04/12/2007 17:18:25

"It may well be true that those whom the gods love die young - it is the only explanation that makes any sense when we consider how Ayrton was taken from us" I guess thats why Ralph is still with us after that 04-05 Indy accidents... sorry I had to ; ) I was not an F1 fan at the time of his death, but I do remember hearing my father talk about it ( I was 9 at the time , how does that make you feel Clive & #38). I think what makes it so much worse than some of the other deaths in sports in the uncensored footage of him being extracted. It sickens me to watch now, what could have been done.... what should have happened. I'm sure you could write another 4 posts on what should and shouldn't of happened on that weekend. In retrospect it all seems so easy to avoid. I think that is what makes it that much harder to accept. What if he survived that crash and finished his career a shadow of his former self. Sure his legacy wouldn't be the same that it is today, but he would still be a great person, nothing can take that away.

Comment by Clive

04/12/2007 17:37:37

I think he may well have been dead even before the marshals got to the car, Dan. It was a freak accident, the front wheel coming back at him like that (and the reason the tires are tethered now) and I'm not surprised that it hadn't been foreseen. Personally, I don't watch the videos of the crash - I can picture it all too vividly as it is. Perhaps the only consolation is that we will always remember him at the height of his powers and he will never grow old and feeble.

Comment by Steven Roy

04/12/2007 19:09:55

irst thing you would have done the next morning? For me it would have been to tell Imola, Bernie and anyone else who was interested that there would never be another race, test or demonstration of any racing car (not just F1) until action had been to make sure no-one else ever had to hit that wall. The FIA did nothing. Then Senna died. Then the hand-wringing started and safety became a priority and Max has been collecting plaudits ever since. Sickening. Williams got dragged through the courts. The FIA and the circuit owner/operator who watched Piquet hit that wall, who watched Berger hit it and burn live on TV were never charged with anything. Of course the problem was fixed 'after someone had died'. I am not religious. I believe Senna, like deAngelis, like Greg Moore was killed by the neglect of the people responsible for his safety.

Comment by Dan M

04/12/2007 19:13:21

I was referring to the accident the previous day, that had they followed the law in Italy the race would have never happened. Roland Ratzenberger died on the track, that should have led to a criminal investigation to be completed before any event can take place (per Italian law). This would have pushed the race back at the least. I believe they stated that he died in the helicopter but this is a little hard to believe. I believe there is also a controversy that they revived Senna even though he had no chance of survival so they could continue the race without the police getting involved. Ayrton also stated his fears about racing after his friend had died. What bothers me most about this incident is that the race was allowed to continue.

Comment by Clive

04/12/2007 19:22:54

Whilst I agree with you both that Senna's accident need never have happened, the awful truth is that it did and we have lost a great man as a result. It is a shame that things became obscured by vested interests and accusations after the event - all directed at the wrong people, of course - but nothing can bring the man back. And I miss him.

Comment by Dan M

04/12/2007 19:30:36

"here used to be a phrased that journalists used about safety in F1. The problem won't be solved until someone dies. At least that seems to have gone now." Thats what scares me, the sport will never be 'safe' but if it takes someone dying to peruse safety then we are doomed to repeat history.

Comment by Clive

04/12/2007 19:38:12

The freak accidents, like Alex Wurz's near miss with David Coulthard in the Australian GP this year, will always be with us. We cannot foresee everything. But it's when a problem has been evident for years and yet nothing done about it that we are entitled to become annoyed. As Steven has pointed out, Senna's death was avoidable. Unfortunately, no amount of recriminations can ever stop the pain of it.

Comment by John F

05/12/2007 00:47:45

As I have said so many times safety is spelled "$AFTY". Here is the USA we have the FAA who controls safety for the airlines. The term they have for what we are discribing is "tombstone technology". This is to say that until some one DIES it is not broken. Look at NASCAR-- it took the death of Dale Sr. for the safer walls and the adoption of the HANS device. I have to say that as far as Senna is concerned this was the only way for him to leave the sport. I enjoyed watching him and I miss his driving skills, but I will always remember him at the top of his game. He has that same feeling for me as Dale Sr. both had only one way to leave the sport--sad-- but to me true.

Comment by verasaki

05/12/2007 01:09:22

I'm not a big supporter of viewing anything remotely historic by current standards but, yeah, Berger's accident should have set off some changes to Tamburello. Even at the time there was some grumbling. If they'd addressed it then, who knows, maybe they'd have managed to get some trees felled, Senna might still be alive and Tamburello might still be one of the great corners instead of a shabby chicane. But, everyone pretty much knew that real safety wasn't going to be a major issue until someone important died. If it had been any other driver I'm not sure there would be such a push on safety until much later. I've only watched one of the videos once since it happened. e I missed seeing the shots from Michael's on board because they showed it during the red flag and I just had to walk away after they got Senna out of the car. I've always believed he died at the track because from the shot we got of them loading him in the chopper it was pretty obvious he wasn't on a back board and no iv's in sight. I 've heard the European television feed was more graphic than what we got in the US. The driver I loved to hate and hated to love, mostly because I was a Prost fan. I still believe Schumacher had him rattled that season and even grinned a little about it, but I've always wondered if maybe he were a little less challenged things might have been different but, probably not. "the Sao Paolo taxi driver" I'd forgotten about that! Too funny!

Comment by Clive

05/12/2007 01:10:41

There is much truth in what you say, John, and it goes to the heart of the saying that those whom the gods love die young. I wrote much the same thing in a post on my personal blog, Gone Away.

Comment by Clive

05/12/2007 01:23:56

You are so right about "any other driver", Verasaki. It is perhaps only because of Senna's death a day later that Roland Ratzenberger's death is remembered. And I think it's true, too, that Senna was a bit pressured by Michael's speed that year. He had gone to Williams expecting to be in the best car after years of having to struggle in an uncompetitive McLaren, only to find that Benetton had suddenly produced the best car in the field. In the previous two races he had been able to keep up though driving on the ragged edge and it is said that he insisted on the modification to the steering that may well have been the cause of his accident - all in the drive to find that little bit more speed to make his task a bit easier. It may well have been then that Michael promised himself that he'd retire when he felt he was no longer able to stay ahead of the the best of the rest...

Comment by Steven Roy

05/12/2007 03:49:17

Versaki is right that had it only been Ratzenberger who died then nothing much would have changed. When Elio deAngelis died in testing nothing much changed other than improvements to marshalling during testing. Like the subsequent changes to Tamburello it should have been reasonably obvious by the mid 80s that a couple of guys in shorts with one hand held fire extinguisher were not really going to be able to cope in the event of a big accident. The fact is Elio died without having a significant injury despite the car flying off the track and landing upside down in a spectator area is disgraceful. The fact that Barrichello had a huge accident on the Friday then two fatalities on Saturday and Sunday then Wendlinger's accident at the next race meant that safety had to become important. There was no way however Tamburello could stay the same afterwards. The wall has a river running behind it so it cannot be moved back. Trees don't figure in this equation. Generally they have been more a problem at Monza over the years because it is a royal park and its trees are sacred or something. Berger has spoken at length of how he tried to get Tamburello sorted after his crash and his regret that his acceptance that the wall couldn't be moved resulted in the death of his great friend. While I can understand why he accepted the explanation I cannot understand what kind of moron came up with it. It had to be either someone from the circuit or the FIA and given Italy's love of dragging motor racing people through the courts every time there is a major accident on their soil whoever said it was leaving themself wide open to legal trouble.

Comment by Clive

05/12/2007 04:19:05

The interesting thing is that similar walls still exist, unprotected by tyre barriers, on other tracks. The Montreal circuit has the wall that Kubica bounced off this year, for instance - again on the outside of a fast corner. Are we sure that we have learned the lessons of the past? And let us not congratulate ourselves too much on the strength of the cars these days. Yes, the BMW survived sufficiently intact to enable Kubica to be almost unharmed - but he was also tremendously lucky. His feet were plainly visible sticking out of the front of the survival cell when the car finally came to rest...

Comment by Marty P

05/12/2007 09:02:25

The cars will be improved each year but the one thing that can't be strengthened is the squishy bit that fits between the steering wheel and the seat. Formula One has been quite lucky to have maintained such strong driver safety record since 1994, so hopefully that does not lead to complacency. Even Hamilton's qualifying stack at the Nurburgring was a close call. He wasn't far of vaulting over the tyres and into the bushes. In my (biased) eyes Senna was the best driver of all time. Clark, Prost, and Schumacher may have been more ‘complete’ drivers but I don’t believe anyone could extract more speed out of a car than Ayrton. My favourite Senna story was the Penske Indycar test he took part in during 1993. Within 25 laps in an unfamiliar car, on an unfamiliar track, he beat Emerson Fittipaldi’s best time. Not bad at all.

Comment by F1 Betting

05/12/2007 09:33:30

Loads of interesting thoughts here. I remember the day very well and everyone seemed affected by it as, only having the 4 channels back then, it seemed loads of people watched it and it seemed to affect more people. I also remember the pictures of Senna being taken out and, looking back, it was harrowing to watch when we didn't know how he was. One thing is for sure, F1 missed Senna for several years after his death. His departure left an obvious void in the sport and a truly great driver and, by all accounts, a great man were never to be seen on the circuit again. I loved watching him - other top sportsmen remind me of Senna nowadays. The likes of Tiger Woods or Roger Federer were like him. Totally at ease and on top of their game when they dominate their sport, just like Senna did. RIP.

Comment by Clive

05/12/2007 12:05:13

I believe he was the greatest of all time, certainly the best I have ever seen. We hear stories of Nuvolari, Fangio, Clark, but nothing can compete with the sight of Senna in full flow in the car, making it look easy as he forces his way past one car after another. Very occasionally, I see flashes of the same brilliance in other drivers and am moved to say, "It is as if Senna was in the car", but only he could drive like that for an entire race distance, sweeping through the corners on the absolute limit yet never producing those little twitches that speak of overdoing it ever so slightly.

Comment by Steven Roy

05/12/2007 12:32:05

his plank being a bit thin at Spa. Never mind 'once someone dies' as a result of the appalling driving standards acceptable today something will be done about it. And 'once some dies' as a result of a car hitting a driver's head something will be done about that. And 'once someone dies' at Monaco we won't go there any more. Of course if a car went into the crowd at Monaco we are not talking about some 'one' dying we are pobably talking about an accident on the scale of the 1955 Le Mans disaster. Still the publicity will no doubt help Bernie's bank balance. Oh and in this age of safety as a top priority this season we are going to race in the middle of the night at a circuit which has no experience of running any kind of racing. The FIA's attitude to this venture shows how seriously they take safety. They have run some tests on the lighting to make sure it is OK for the drivers and for TV. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the marshalls are going to have to switch to night shift mode after finishing their normal working week. I spent 3 years working rotating shifts and after a while you adapt to it but even so working through the night you are not at your most alert and most people experience a two hour spell where they are way, way below par. The first few weeks are horrendous as you are completely disoriented. But apparently OK to supervise a GP weekend. And not just any weekend but the first international race any of them have experienced. Then there is the issue of people getting to and from the circuit in safety. I can't imagine that has troubled Max and Bernie too much. The whole venture is insane and only motivated by the over-riding factor in F1. It will improve Bernie's bank balance.

Comment by Clive

05/12/2007 13:07:50

Agreed on every point, Steven. Which leaves me little to say except, "How long will it be before we get the revamp F1 needs most - a complete restructuring of the FIA?"