Red Bull and Fashion 25/08/2009 I have come to the conclusion that Red Bull are the most fashion conscious team in F1, at least when it comes to engines. When Dietrich Mateschitz first bought the team at the end of 2004, it continued with Cosworth power for 2005. But the chance of a deal with Ferrari proved too tempting and the team contracted for the Italian engine in 2006.Renault engine failure for Vettel in ValenciaBut Renault upset the apple cart in 2005 and 2006, winning both constructors and drivers titles. Suddenly, the Renault engine was flavor of the moment and Red Bull quietly passed on its Ferrari contract to Mateschitz's junior team, Toro Rosso, and signed up for Renault power. Success still eluded the team, however, despite the growing effect of Adrian Newey's influence on the cars; it must have been especially galling for Mateschitz that his junior team defeated Red Bull in 2008, thanks largely to the Ferrari engine emerging as the most powerful of the season.Four Renault engine failures this year have obviously soured the team's view of its chosen engine even further, particularly as they have all happened to Sebastian Vettel, their bright young hope for the championship, and word is that a deal is close to run Mercedes engines next year. The German engine is, of course, the one to have this time around, all of its present users having experienced impeccable reliability and power in 2009.Does it not seem like a chase of an elusive will o' the wisp, the team forever grasping at the magic of the engine of the moment but finding it outclassed once a deal is arranged? The balance of power between engines swings rapidly as first one manufacturer then another finds a tweak that supplies just a little extra (yes, I know they're supposed to be frozen but what are loopholes for, if not to be exploited?). Mercedes may be great today but there is no guarantee they will still be top of the pile tomorrow.It is all symptomatic of the way Red Bull goes racing, it seems to me. The attitude has been that financial muscle allows the team to have the best that money can buy and to assemble everything thereafter into an unbeatable combination. It has worked in the case of Newey and his staff, the RB5 being clearly one of the two best cars on the track this year, but engines have proved more difficult as fortunes fluctuate to and fro. The constant engine changes certainly looks like following a fashion that stays one step ahead, at least.There are always good reasons, of course, and I guess that Renault's unpredictable relationship with F1 may have even more to do with the prospective change than the reliability issues. But it has to be Mercedes, doesn't it? No going back to Ferrari or approaches to Toyota for Dietrich!It would be rough justice if Mercedes were to suffer a rash of engine failures next year (don't laugh it has happened before) and another engine entirely become the darling of the sport. In fact, I can even envisage a situation where BMW changes its corporate mind over complete withdrawal and offers its engine to customers; how delicious it would be if it turns out to be the one to have in 2010.All dreams, I know, but evidence of my disdain for fashion too. F1 rewards those who persevere through the bad times and believe that their formula will win in the end. Just ask Frank Williams.
Clive
Guilherme Teixeira Yeah Clive, I've been asking this for myself lately. BMW will shut down its F1 activities next year, but why not keep supplying engines? They are frozen anyway and would just take a dew tweaks to get the "P86/10" ready to run.With a potential buyer for the Hinwil base to appear soon, it would wise to use BMW engines, since the guys at Hinwil certainly are used to it. And their engines seems to be really powerful. Date Added: 25/08/2009
Dank At the moment Renault pays an undisclosed amount to Red Bull, along with their partner Total whose name joined the list of suppliers this year.The Mercedes-Benz deal won't be anywhere near as lucrative, so if it's a question of money over reliability, if Red Bull do decide to jump ship that is, it'll be a case of the latter.Can't really see the problem of being able to switch to what is clearly a more reliable, easier to implement and possibly quicker engine if the opportunity arises? Date Added: 25/08/2009
Hezla I hope that we will still see BMW Power engines maybe rebadged to something else. Next year it could be the new old player, Cosworth, who will have the best engine. Frank Williams complained about Cosworths engines that it uses too much fuel. It will be an big issue next year when refueling will not be allowed. I am pretty sure Cosworth are working hard to update their F1 engine not only regarding fuel but also about reliability issues and maybe they will find and exploit one the loopholes.....I don't think there is a big difference in performance between Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari engines. Brawn selected Mercedes because it was the easiest to fit with the gearbox etc. Date Added: 25/08/2009
michael There you go again Clive making BMW your "Cliffhanger" for 2010 :-) a true die hard believer.I love this article Clive you rightly point out that there is an honorable difference between teams with true racing DNA and a guy with all the money in the world to buy success. Funny that you should choose the one word that sums it all up FASHION. A man that has made his living with a designer drink what else is there to expect? In all likelihood Williams and McLaren will be in F1 for a hundred years maybe even Ferrari - but those fashion folks will come and go just like BMW and Co. sorry Clive :-( Frank Williams and Patrick Head are something Dietrich Mateschitz will never be - can never be. Money buys everything just not true honor. Where is Minardi please.Us F1 fans will always feel the difference. Strangely on that note i am missing a reference to Vijay's Force India ??? Date Added: 25/08/2009
Ollie
Just ask Frank Williams.
Dank Loving the romanticism for a bygone era in F1 when the likes of Williams ruled the roost and talk of 'being honourable' made me wonder if I stumbled into a Bushido lesson by mistake.Every single team, bar Williams, are in F1 for different reasons. Most as a marketing tool, including yes, Red Bull and Toro Rosso.I fail to see what the problem is with a team being in a position to select which engine they run with, be it Mercedes-Benz, Cosworth or the 1.2v from my clapped out old banger?On a Mateschitz-bashing note: people seem to forget as well that Red Bull have been one of the most generous sponsors in motor racing for a long time, ploughing money in to develop young talent. Yes a few might snigger at the fact some fail to make the grade, but it's still money coming out of Mateschitz's coffers. Date Added: 25/08/2009
Every single team, bar Williams, are in F1 for different reasons. Most as a marketing tool, including yes, Red Bull and Toro Rosso.
Clive Guilherme: Agreed, it seems logical for BMW to supply engines, even if only to get something back from their involvement in F1. Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Dank: There is nothing wrong with a team trying to get the best engine possible but my point is that Red Bull seem to swap horses whenever another engine becomes flavour of the month. To want the best engine is fine but to chase fashion is counter-productive in the end. Newey is currently holding fire on the design of the RB6 until he sees which engine he will be working with - it's a crucial factor that doesn't always turn out as well as the hasty marriage between the Brawn BGP 001 chassis and the Mercedes engine. Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Hezla: And it has been the success of the Brawn/Mercedes marriage that has led to the German engine becoming so desirable. The truth is that any of the engines currently in F1 is good enough to win in the right chassis. Renault may have some reliability issues at present (although it is interesting that this seems to afflict Vettel's car only) but it could be Mercedes' turn next. Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Michael: Of course BMW are a team intended to win for corporate marketing purposes only - I won't deny that. But I hoped that the team's previous existence as Sauber, coupled with the influence of guys like Theissen (who clearly lives for motor sport), might overcome the corporate goal, thereby allowing the team to become something rather more like Ferrari - where racing is the prime motivation and marketing a natural by product (I know I may be out of date on that but the possibility is always there for someone else to emulate).Obviously, I was wrong and the BMW board have scratched F1 from their requirements. But I don't blame the team for that and still hope that a way might be found for it to survive, regardless of what badge it carries. Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Ollie: Funnily enough, as I was writing the post, it occurred to me that there are an awful lot of teams expecting to have Mercedes engines next year. The company is already committed to three and the limit is four, so how are all these other teams going to wangle their Merc power plants? Or maybe the FIA should take the chance to introduce Max's baby, the one-engine formula... Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Dank: No disrespect intended to Mateschitz's excellent young driver program and the millions he pours into motor sports of many types, I assure you. I am just reflecting that the F1 team might do better to stick with an engine supplier and work with it (as they do with Renault) to make the whole package a race winner.It's like traffic jams on the motorway - the other lanes always seem to move faster than yours until you change lanes. Then suddenly the new one slows to a standstill... ;) Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Ollie: No argument, you're absolutely right. Even as regards BMW. ;) Date Added: 26/08/2009
Journeyer What's good about the Merc is that it suits the Brawn and the McLaren well - despite being developed differently and in different circumstances. Do remember that the Brawn wasn't designed for a Merc - and it's still going well. Also, the engine freeze means it's unlikely any engine can topple the Merc right now. Do note that it was also very good last year.And I'm a fan of anything that will allow the reformation of Williams-Renault. :D Date Added: 26/08/2009
Clive Journeyer: I think the engine freeze has turned out to be anything but. Once Ferrari used the "tweaks allowed for reliability purposes" loophole, everyone got in on the act. So the Ferrari was accepted as the most powerful engine last year (not the Merc) and now it seems Mercedes has suddenly come to the fore. Who knows which will be the most desirable next year?As the Americans would say: Freeze? My ass. Date Added: 26/08/2009
michael Clive do you have any idea why Whitmarsh is bashing Heikki these days when Jonathan Neale quite openly states the opposite? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78007Oh and on the matter Red Bull and Merc engines :: Karin Sturm on German adrivo.com had this to say: "It is said that Norbert "Nobi" Haug hasn't taken any liking to Mr. Mateschitz!"What do you think how much pull Norbert would have in denying Mercedes actual revenue? Karin also states, though, that it is possible that Mercedes is waiting on the final ruling into the 2010 new teams "thingamajing" - since Prodrive and McLaren have a long standing partnership and should Prodrive be reinstated into F1 2010 the Mercedes package would be his. Oh and what does Mr. Neal mean when he speaks of their new diffuser as a shadow diffuser???thank you! Date Added: 27/08/2009
Clive Michael: I don't really know what goes through Whitmarsh's mind but would guess that Kovalainen is as good as gone for next year. The team is still trying to encourage him to greater efforts (no doubt with constructor's points in mind) but he will have to put in an amazing performance in the last few races if he is to hang on to his seat. Expect Rosberg to be the McLaren second driver in 2010.As competition director for Merc, Norbert must have considerable influence over which team receives their engine. If it is true that he doesn't like Mateschitz, it would follow naturally that he is waiting to see the result of the FIA selection process before making a decision. He is spoilt for choice, really, with so many teams wanting the engine but only one contract to hand out. There is even the possibility that the BMW team, if it survives under another name, might ask for Merc engines!As regards the "shadow diffuser", I think this is just another way of describing what we call the double diffuser. Since there are two layers to it, the second could be thought of as a shadow of the first. Date Added: 27/08/2009
Alianora La Canta Clive, according to the FIA's regulations, the engine limit for manufacturers is two teams (non-manufacturers like Cosworth are exempt). If the teams think the limit is four, I see a massive battle on the horizon. Date Added: 28/08/2009
michael many thanks clive! oh, I found a picture of the new diffuser McL is using it is asymmetrical the "dip" is to the right completely off center. Date Added: 28/08/2009
Clive Alianora: I am not sure where the idea of the four customer limit for engine suppliers comes from but it has been mentioned several times by team managers. It may be a provision of the new Concorde Agreement or just a convention accepted between FOTA and the FIA. But it would be just like the FIA not to know their own regulations... Date Added: 29/08/2009
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