Is Le Mans an Alternative? 18/06/2009 Like most fans, I am weary of the current political storm over F1 and wish that it would be resolved quickly, whatever the outcome. Max Mosley is not one to tire of such shenanigans, however, and yesterday he responded to FOTA's offer of a compromise with yet another missive that changes almost nothing. Fortunately, Duncan Stephen of Vee8 has posted a couple of articles, FIA outlines its vision for Formula None (love that description) and The FIA shuts its ears, that deal with this very well and I feel I can studiously ignore this latest exchange therefore.Le Mans racingInstead, I want to look at one of the options that has been suggested for the FOTA teams. Recently, the organization that controls Le Mans racing, Automobile Club de l'Ouest (ACO), made it clear that refugees from F1 are welcome to enter their series and even to suggest new technical regulations. This followed Luca di Montezemolo's mention of the series as an option available and, at first sight, it looks quite tempting.Le Mans already has a dedicated following of fans and is one of the three most important motor racing events of the year. Many F1 fans take time out from their obsession to watch the 24-hour race and it would seem a viable alternative for the F1 manufacturer teams at least. I am not so sure that it would compensate us for the loss of F1 however.For a start, Le Mans is more than a two-tier racing series; it has no less than four categories, two for Le Mans Prototypes (LMP1 and LMP2), two for Grand Touring cars (GT1 and GT2). Usually the victor is provided by the top class of prototypes but sometimes reliability can dictate that a lower class entrant wins. It is four races in one as a result, there being awards for each of the categories; the prototypes are the stars of the show but the slower cars have their chance for glory too.The series is further complicated by the engine regulations being much more complex than in F1 - at present both gasoline and diesel engines are allowed and there is even provision for alternative fuels. No doubt any manufacturer teams that entered would go for the LMP1 category as the one offering the greatest chance of overall victory but there are many choices that would still have to be made within that description.We are talking a lot of money being spent on engine design and development therefore, and that is before we consider the chassis. To some extent, experience of F1 construction would assist in the production of a Le Mans prototype but it would inevitably require the investment of large sums of money to put a serious contender on the road. Since I believe that the FOTA teams are genuine in their desire to reduce costs, this must be a considerable argument against their participation in the series.Of all the manufacturers, I think only Ferrari would take on a Le Mans project to replace their F1 operation. Although the other manufacturers have all tried their hands at the series before, the present economic climate would make it easier for them to just give up on motor racing for the moment and wait for sunnier times.For the F1 fans, too, there are disadvantages. We are fans of open wheel racing, after all, and know that GTs and prototypes are very different beasts to those we are used to. It is inevitable that we would find the cars less exciting than the glorious and dangerous creatures of F1 - those open wheels demand a precision unknown in the world of sportscars and sedans.Remember also that Le Mans is an endurance series and that reliability and perseverance are far more important to it than speed and handling. We could say goodbye to the wheel-to-wheel racing that we expect and demand from F1 and would have to adjust our expectations to appreciate the slow unfolding of strategies in races that last much longer than GPs. And who has the time and opportunity to sit down for 24 hours to watch a race?In F1 we are used to seeing every moment of the race - indeed we complain when the demands of advertising rob us of chunks of our favorite sport. Watching an endurance race, however, is much more a matter of checking in every now and then to see how things are going. Endurance racing is a matter of endurance for the spectators just as much as it is for the cars and teams.I am not knocking Le Mans racing; I followed it quite avidly (although not as fanatically as I did F1) in the sixties and even now will watch it when the chance arises. But I do not see it as a suitable substitute for F1. It is a pleasant diversion when no GP is taking place but it can never take the place of those intense two-hour battles that feed our addiction every two weeks in the season.Oh, you can laugh and say that F1 racing is processional and boring these days and so it might be. We live in hope that it will get better, however, whereas Le Mans racing will always be a matter of the leading car or two being several laps, not seconds, ahead of the next cars. There is brief excitement in the early laps but gaps soon stretch to minutes and then it becomes a matter of lasting the distance. Compared to that, F1 is hectic in the extreme.Open wheel racing and endurance racing are two different creatures and attract two different fanbases. Some F1 fans might make the conversion but I doubt that they would be in the majority. I think we must hope for an alternative open wheel series resembling F1 more closely than Max Mosley's vision of the future. There will be a lot of lives left empty and bereft of passion otherwise.
Clive
Fractal I alluded to Silverstones future in the previous post and I raise the point again. If there is a breakaway group where would that leave Donnington? Bernie holds the rights to F1 races doesn't he, so where would the teams stand for future races if they form a splinter group? I am sure the BRDC would welcome any approach by the teams. Who owns what and is contracted to whom?Perhaps I still mourn the loss of Silverstone to much.AFC Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Fractal: Donington now has a contract with Bernie to stage the British GP for many years to come. As long as the organizers can manage it, they will have the F1 GP therefore. Silverstone is having its last F1 race this weekend and can choose to put on any race it likes, dependent on the wishes of its owners, the BRDC.It is very likely that Silverstone would be approached and agree to put on a round of any FOTA breakaway series therefore. So the old race might not be dead yet - but it cannot be a round of the FIA F1 series.Sorry if I missed your question in the last post, Fractal. I must be getting old... :D Date Added: 18/06/2009
verasaki Sort of off topic here but Fractal tickled a vague memory. Bear with me because I really do not recall the particulars clearly. When CART/Champ Car started making noises in the late '90's about trying to expand in Europe wasn't there some sort of issue with the FIA and conflicts with certain tracks they sanctioned? I really do not recall what the whole issue was but they were unequivocally told they could not run at any FIA sanctioned tracks( and I think that included tracks that F1 itself did not use) and may even have extended to not running road courses, which is how the oval in Germany came about and the race at Rockingham (though I think that track already existed).So, if there were to be a breakaway who would the sanctioning body be and what sway would the FIA have over what tracks are available? By the way, loved the post yesterday. And in reply to your MotoGP comment- some of us already do watch it! Even when the race is a bit dull, all they have to do is switch to someone's on board camera and it's a wild ride! My complaint about the US coverage is the same as my complaint about the next couple of F1 races, however. They are aired at really inconvenient times on Sunday afternoon. Catalunya is the first race I've been able to catch this year and I missed most of the F1 race in Turkey fo the same reason. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Hezla - The Dane in Estonia Le Mans and F1 are different. I see both and therefore Le Mans can't replace F1. As a Danish motorsport fan you must see the Danish top drivers like Tom Kristensen, Jan Magnussen. This year also gave us a danish team as winner, Team Essex with Claus Elgaard and Kristian Poulsen :-)When the time allow me then I also watch MotoGP. And if they destroy F1 I will follow MotoGP more than now, but I will prefer F1.I really hope they, FIA and FOTA, find a compromise. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Vera: As regards the CART exploration of Europe, I am as unsure as you are, I'm afraid. I really did not take much notice at the time. But I can see the FIA getting nasty about such races on the F1 tracks - Max and Bernie wouldn't like that one bit. Conversely, I don't see how they could have banned any CART races on road tracks, however. The FIA does own the tracks and circuits are free to make their own arrangements for non-FIA series therefore. Silverstone is an example, it being the venue for all sorts of races as well as the annual GP. Perhaps Alianora can fill in the details for us.Max has said that, if there is a breakaway series, the FIA would be prepared to sanction it. Somehow I doubt that FOTA would go for that, having only just escaped Max's clutches. There are other sanctioning bodies (ACO is one) that the FIA has no jurisdiction over at all and I would expect FOTA to go with one of those or set up one separately.That would be the point in the rumor that FOTA has talked to Carmelo Ezpeleta about setting up a new series. He is the head of Dorna, the body that runs MotoGP and has experience of organizing and controlling non-FIA series therefore. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Vera: Oops, that should be "The FIA does not own the tracks..." Sorry, that one slipped by me. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Hezla: Funny you should mention that - only this morning I was reading somewhere that Tom Kristensen is the most successful driver in terms of wins at Le Mans. Incidentally, my wife is Danish American and her surname is Paulsen...I watch MotoGP occasionally but doubt that I would ever get into it to the same extent as F1 - bikes are different somehow. My son, Mad, is a biker and follows MotoGP and BSB - he tries to get me more interested but it is hard going, I think. They all look the same to me... ;) Date Added: 18/06/2009
patrick I'm a fan of sportscar racing - the *cars*, as opposed to the drivers or the racing, are much more interesting than F1 because of the much greater technical freedom allowed to teams. However, it's never going to attract the kind of casual fanbase that F1 does. As I posted MSR this week, Le Mans racing just doesn't work all that well on television - and while it's great for anoraks like me, the ins and outs of long distance sportscar racing, where fights for position on track are very much the exception rather than the rule, will always be lost on the average guy sitting down of a Sunday afternoon to watch some sport Date Added: 18/06/2009
aracerdude I for one, do not understand people who enjoy only a certain type of racing. Sure everyone has their favorite series to watch. But in my opinion, the appeal of racing is basically universal.As a fan, to figure out what makes each series tick is part of the appeal. Certain factors/skills vary from series to series and that makes racing interesting.I enjoy watching 3, 4, 5 different types of racing on any given weekend and I consider that a blessing.Is LeMans a reasonable substitute for the F1 teams? Probably not. For one, they would not enjoy getting their proud F1 butts kicked racing in a series they have lost touch with. Taking on Peugot and Audi right now is no small feat. Others like Acura, who have cars and teams would be happy to come play with the F1 boys knowing the have a head start on them.A breakaway series would appeal to them more. They understand formula racing and have huge amounts invested into it and could continue development on their own terms. Date Added: 18/06/2009
verasaki I don't think it was an outright ban- and they did come through in the end. I think the FIA may have indicated they would be reluctant sanction other events at road courses that signed with CART. And I think the deal was that CART could only run ovals in countries that ran F1 races. I haven't been able to find much of anything doing a quick search. But, if Max says they'll have no problem with a breakaway series, then I believe him...no doubts. Date Added: 18/06/2009
donwatters One of the advantages of joining the LMS would be an instant entry into the ALMS...something I'm sure the mfgs would look upon as something very worthwhile from a marketing standpoint. Also, If I'm not mistaken, not all the LMS races are 24 hours...I think Spa is the only other one...but I could be wrong. In any case, I would think that if the FOTA teams were to join the LMS/ALMS I'm sure they could create new races of shorter distances at some of the historic venues. That, in my mind, would be really cool. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Sam Prest I agree that the 24 hour race takes a different approach than an F1 race as a spectator, but I'd be happy to sit down and watch a 1000km Le Mans Series race now and then. It would be great to see what some of the current F1 teams could come up with. The major problem I see is the limited number of races per year.Here is my vision for a Ferrari LMP car. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Don Speekingleesh Part of the FIA's settlement with the EU was that they could not insist tracks did not host races from other series. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Leslie Fractal:If there is no agreement between FOTA/FIA there will be a separate F1 type series and Bernie/CVC will be in on it. Donington will have the British GP. The FIA will be whistling Dixie.I've watched hundreds of GP's and been to Le Mans over thirty times. They require different mindsets; one is like being married to a beautiful woman the other is like being out on a date with a slightly dodgy bird.We used to have a way of getting to a remote part of the Mulsanne straight at night. Nowhere else can you get the thrill or physical feeling of being just yards away from a screaming V12 Jaguar(of course) at over 250 MPH. A flash of light from the right, a blast of air from ahead and that glorious engine noise off to your left down the rest of the straight.Ah, nostalgia, now I'm feeling more cheerful! Cheers. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Wow, did I stir up a hornet's nest or something. Sorry to all those who felt bruised by my apparent attack on LMS - it was not intended as such, honest. But I think everyone agrees that it's a very different thing from F1 racing and requires a different appreciation. To answer some points in detail:Patrick: The importance of the cars in LMS reminds me that I omitted to mention that the LMS drivers are not perceived as the heroes that F1 drivers become, probably because it takes three to drive each car in a 24-hour race and drivers come and go as available. I suspect that, to the fans, drivers are more important than cars in F1. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Aracer: I think I must be more of a specialist than you are - I have some interest in all forms of racing but the only one that matters to me is F1. Perhaps that is why I have written so much about the politics lately, since it threatens to put an end to the sport as I have known it for so long. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Don: That is a very good point that I had not considered - that LMS gives an easy entry into ALMS. Dang, now I'm not so sure that LMS isn't the way to go. I'm all for anything that brings American and European racing closer together. Gonna have to ponder this a bit longer... Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Sam: Great image of a possible Ferrari LMS car - and close to what it would look like, I'm sure.I was also concerned about the calendar - that there wouldn't be as many races as we're used to. But I guess that would fix itself in time, as the audience demanded more. Date Added: 18/06/2009
Clive Don Speekinglish: Thanks for the info - now you mention it, a dim memory of that provision occurs. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Steven Roy At the time CART were starting to look at moving into Europe Max made a lot of stupid statements (nothing changes) about taking action against tracks that ran those races, drivers who raced in them and about the sanctioning rights. Since then the EU has slapped him and told him he cannot have a monopoly and they are spoiling for a real fight where they can deal with the FIA once and for all.As a result Max has now said the FIA would happily sanction a breakaway series. Very nice of him since they don't have the legal right not to sanction it.For me the Le Mans stuff is a complete red herring that gets some good publicity for FOTA and the ACO and puts pressure on Max. Ferrari may do Le Mans but that has nothing to do with F1.However in today's Autosport there is an article about the formation of a series to compete for the LMP Trophy. This will be a series of 6 or 8 races for cars running to LMP1 regs and will include the 24 hours of Le Mans, Petit Le Mans and Sebring. It looks to me like the basis for a return to a world sportscar championship. It may start as early as next year.I doubt that FOTA en masse is going to announce a transfer to that championship but it may make a nice exit strategy for Renault or Toyota. Put out a statement that this knew championship is more road relevant and ignore the fact that they have just cut their costs by 80%. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Leslie: Brilliant description of the difference between the two forms of motor racing. Very apt, I think.In fact, your description of the Mulsanne at night makes me wish I'd managed to get to Le Mans at least once... Date Added: 19/06/2009
Steven Roy On the point about Le Mans being something you dip into every now and then I should point out that sidepodcast had a live commenting session running for the race which got over 4,000 comments. Some of the people only had one or two hours sleep and watch the whole race apart from that.We have done the same for Sebring and Petit Le Mans.Historically there may always have been big gaps at Le Mans but this year there was never more than 2 laps between the top three cars and last year there were only seconds between the first two. Petit Le Mans was also very close.With the exception of the finish of the Brazilian GP my strongest memories of racing in 2008 come from sportscars.There must be many F1 team principals who regret that they never signed Allan McNish. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Steven Roy The blue touch paper has been lithttp://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76292 Date Added: 19/06/2009
donwatters Good on FOTA. Should be fascinating to see the specifics develop. I wonder what poor Bernie is going to do with what will now be an F3 series. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Wow, they have finally been and gone and done it. I am amazed - I guess I never really believed that they would. Good for them; it has taken a lot of courage and belief in the sport to go as far as setting up a breakaway series. It seems that the FOTA teams had come to distrust Max even more than the fans...Steven: Thanks for the comprehensive info - it makes things much clearer. And you were right about Le Mans being a public relations exercise more than anything else!Don: Yes, good on FOTA. I cannot see Max's F1 Lite succeeding now and that is going to leave Bernie and CVC looking very stupid indeed. Max may be counting on the "reserve list" to pad out his series but I think he will find that some (including Lola) will defect to FOTA. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Steven Roy FOTA press release for their site which is dying due to trafficFOTA UNITED ON THE FUTURE Silverstone, 18 June 2009 - Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport. Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport. In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives. The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future. Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012. The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA. The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise. It has become clear however, that the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship. These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders. The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Steven: Thanks for that. I suppose there is an outside chance of this being a last attempt to make Max see reason but that's a slim hope at best. We live in interesting times.The atmosphere at Silverstone is going to be electric this weekend. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Steven Roy There is a big difference between announcing a chamionship and that championship happening. Personally I hope it does happen. I have had more than enough of Max and the FIA.The announcement has been timed perfectly. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive It's the timing of the announcement that makes me think it might just be a final move in the chess game. Max has a few hours to contemplate what he has done and to capitulate. The only problem with that theory is that I think the teams have really had enough of Max and that being rid of him has been the agenda all along.Without Max and Bernie's antics, what on earth will I write about? ;) Date Added: 19/06/2009
RON Congratulations to all F1 geniune fans...FOTA are going ahead with a breakaway series... woohoo!!!I could not be happier - this is the best news out of F1, for a very long time...Geniune, transparent racing is back on the agenda... I simply cannot wait for 2010... I'm not even bothering to watch this weekends F1 farce...Let's hope FOTA will expose the level of corruption Max conjured up, before they put the final boot in.. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Nick Goodspeed Clive: Max see reason???? Interesting concept. I'm more inclined to invest in machines that turn lead into gold. Mosley wasn't sane going back to long before the sex scandal and his sons demise, neither of which would bring him any closer to reality. I hope from the bottom of my heart that no agreement is come to, involving him. The FIA and Ecclestone can take the name to the grave. It doesn't stand for anything much anymore anyway. Strip all their garbage away and what's left is everything the fans want to see. Once the greed(Ecclestone) and BS (Mosley) has gone, perhaps promoters will have a chance to make some money again in North America. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Andrew I almost can't believe it.Fantastic news!I just hope they'll be able to save Monaco, Spa, and the 'ringfrom dieing with the rest of F1 Date Added: 19/06/2009
Lonny Here's the problem that killed CART in the IRL/CART break-up: The IRL had Indy. Even though the 500 went through a couple of years of unknown drivers and cars winning, the PR of the Indy 500 eventually caused the sponsors to insist that CART teams race there. This eventually lead to the top teams, Penske, Ganassi and Andretti-Green going to the IRL full time. If FOTA cannot get Monaco or Monza or The 'Ring onto their schedule, the same thing may happen to FOTA. Who knows what type of contract Bernie holds with the tracks. Again, who knows what kind of contracts he holds with the media. What if SPEED in the US is barred from televising FOTA? Will ESPN or someone like VS pick it up? I am troubled. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Hezla Lonny: I totally agree with you. I really hope they have learned from the experience from IRL/CART. Many of the European national TV channels only shows F1 because there is a huge demand for it. Divided in 2 series, it could be that nothing at all will be televised when their current agreements run out. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Lee Fantastic News!! Max and Bernie can now rot in hell where they belong.I also found it interesting that they chose to mention that Bernie owes the teams a great deal of money as this suggests that they will certainly not want him as part of the new setup. Serves the greedy dwarf right in my opinion. Perhaps now they can go back to a more realistic and fair way of generating income where the venues do not have to pay extortionate amounts of money to simply be allowed to host the races. This in turn may well mean that the ticket prices come down a little and the great courses can continue. Lets hope Silverstone, Canada, France etc all get their races back and lets hope they do a regular visit to the US too.I hope also that Lola, and Pro-drive get invited to the party as they have spent a lot of money developing cars for F1 only to be stabbed in the back by Max. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Ron: Hear, hear. Unlike you, however, I will be watching the weekend's GP and the rest of the races in 2009. ;) Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Nick: All true. The only way that agreement can be reached now is for Max to resign and I know that is just not going to happen. If FOTA live up to the promises in their announcement of the new series, we will be in for a real treat. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Andrew: Monaco is a free agent and can go with whichever series it wants to therefore. Most commentators think it will swap to FOTA's championship.Spa is contractually bound to the FIA, although I don't know for how long, and the Ring has been muttering about dropping its GP anyway. We could get Imola back, however, and Montreal, possibly Magny Cours (although there will be few celebrations about that). Then there is the possibility of races in the States. Anyone fancy a GP at Laguna Seca? :D Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Lonny: Monaco is the key, according to most observers. Whichever series bags that one is likely to win out in the end, if the CART experience is anything to go by. And Monaco is not contractually bound to the FIA... ;)I have wondered about televising of the races too. Bernie would probably stop Fox and Speed from showing the new series but, if FOTA make the price low enough, someone will pick it up. In general, I think that Formula New will have no problem getting TV companies to take it on. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Hezla: Having had time to think about it, I reckon TV will not be a problem. FOTA is clever enough to know that televising the races is enormously important and they will set the price low enough to be picked up by broadcasters other than those currently involved. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Lee: FOTA have made some pretty good promises in their initial announcement and this gives hope for the future of their series. Reducing entry prices for fans is just one of the aims.I would guess that there is a strong possibility that Lola and Prodrive will apply for the new series, as annoyed with the FIA as they are. Interestingly, N. Technology (one of the new teams on Max's reserve list), withdrew its application to join F1 after FOTA's announcement of their breakaway. The team's reason is that it does not want to be a part of a series that does not include the manufacturers. Sounds to me as though they will be asking to join FOTA too... :D Date Added: 19/06/2009
Nick Goodspeed I am sure there are a good many TV outfits that will be drooling at the chanced to televise the epitome of motor sport. FOTA can pick and chose or auction to the highest bidder. Mosley is done for. Once the cameras are focused elsewhere he will fade away quickly. He's had more than his 15 minutes of fame and proved to be unworthy. He has succeeded as being as unpopular as his father. The resources and potential of what has become a united force of the pinnacle of open wheel auto racing, with all its characters, past, present and future will not cease to exist. They will, happily, move on and race. If they get smaller for a little while, they will only be shedding hangers on. As an entity, FOTA will hopefully be creating a Magna Carta for the future of auto racing, and finally be done with FIA's despot factory of underachieving leaders. There is an abundance of race tracks, fans and cars and drivers that have been alienated by Mosley and Ecclestone's tenure. FOTA will have learned from the mistakes of FIA. FIA, as all organisms must adapt or face extinction. If the malignant growth known as Mosley stays, both F1 and the FIA will die. Once an honest and fair sanctioning body is put into place, it is probably only a question of time until other series follow course to escape the poor management that is the FIA. Mosley is a pariah who has abused, manipulated and mismanaged the world of auto racing far too long. I seriously doubt if anyone, individual or company, had a choice between the FIA and a transparant option, they would choose the FIA. As of late the FIA has been the packaging end of a product that has been bastardized so as to fit a panel of Ecclestonian TV investors. They have taking a feast and turned it into a Styrofoam boxed sawdustburger for the masses. The masses were more interested in being seen as part of the circus than actually caring that F1 was alienating those who had real interest, those exact people the masses wanted to rub shoulders with. To Ecclestone the racing is secondary. HIS event is the happening. Let's get a bit of democracy back into auto racing and turn it back into the show it can be. Something far away from Mosley and Ecclestones packaged dream. Sorry for rambling on...Nick Date Added: 19/06/2009
donwatters Nick: Well said, mate. Date Added: 19/06/2009
Clive Nick: No apologies necessary - sounds to me like a good manifesto for FOTA! Date Added: 19/06/2009
Nick Goodspeed I have heard aq report on the Montreal branch of the national station (CBC) that Ecclestone is toadying up th the Montreal Grand Prix organizers in search of a deal for 2010. Date Added: 19/06/2009
aracerdude I admit it Clive....I'm an AUTO RACING JUNKIE.And my 'fix' comes in many different forms! Date Added: 19/06/2009
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